Jon Cerone has his buddy Mike, also known by his stage name Kwaj, come by to interview him to ask him about addiction, recovery and writing. They also chat about the years after they both left Grand Valley State University, while talking about creativity and chasing dreams. The usual good stuff! Stick around.
Don't forget to follow Kwaj on all his social media platforms and check out his music catalogue!
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/07qmux75ZCIGFmkjC5K5lX
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/lordkwaj/
Follow Jon Cerone and The FEEL FREE Podcast
Parables: Musings From an Addict on the Journey Toward Wholeness on Amazon:
https://a.co/d/iWp2X6D
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/joncerone/?hl=en
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Cerone/100075476931880/
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5j0_wqY2yj-2JyXU_27iQ
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@joncerone
https://www.tiktok.com/@feelfreeclips
Jon Cerone has his buddy Mike, also known by his stage name Kwaj, come by to interview him to ask him about addiction, recovery and writing. They also chat about the years after they both left Grand Valley State University, while talking about creativity and chasing dreams. The usual good stuff! Stick around.
Don't forget to follow Kwaj on all his social media platforms and check out his music catalogue!
Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/07qmux75ZCIGFmkjC5K5lX
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/lordkwaj/
Follow Jon Cerone and The FEEL FREE Podcast
Parables: Musings From an Addict on the Journey Toward Wholeness on Amazon:
https://a.co/d/iWp2X6D
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/joncerone/?hl=en
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Cerone/100075476931880/
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5j0_wqY2yj-2JyXU_27iQ
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@joncerone
https://www.tiktok.com/@feelfreeclips
Yo yo, we're back with another episode of the Feel Free podcast. I'm your host, John Sarone. This week, I got my buddy Mike here also known as Quage rapper, from Lansing in Michigan, here to interview me, ask me some questions about addition recovery. We both talk about our stories after leaving Grand Rapids or Grand Valley State in 2016 and 2017, where we met up to chill and talk about our dreams with music and stuff like that, so the conversation is pretty much us just catching up while just talking about life in general. It's a pretty laid back conversation. You don't want to miss it, though. It's always a good one, and next week I got my buddy Brandon back on the podcast. You'll actually be here visiting, so we'll be doing the podcast in person. You don't want to miss that. It's going to be another good episode. So, without further ado, let's get into the episode.
Speaker 2:I mean, we could just start with that man. So did you move to Chicago right after school?
Speaker 1:Bruh, I didn't even graduate from Grand Valley.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even know that, Bruh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude. So wait, when we were chilling it was 2016. Yeah, it was 2016 at the business college. I moved out to the East Side of GR after we were done with that school year and I was living with a buddy and shit, yeah, I didn't finish, so that next year I actually started drinking a lot and just went full-blown alcoholic and, yeah, I failed out in 2017 in that fall semester of 2017, and then I moved back to Chicago. I mean you could all say it worked out right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it did. I needed a support group back home, which is odd because my support group back here everyone still uses or my homie, as you drink, it's all good. All my homies still drink and smoke, my family members too. But everyone believed in me to be better. Everyone believed in me to get sober. Nobody ever forced anything on me or told me I needed a drink or smoke or anything. When I said I wanted to get sober, everyone was super supportive of it.
Speaker 2:I didn't even Imagine how stupid a friend you'd have to be to be like nah man. I'm not cool with that.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying I just don't associate with people like that. I don't think I had anybody that I had to really cut out like that, though I was just very blessed to have a lot of good people in my life. I didn't even get sober until 2019. So between 2017 and 2019, I was just drinking a lot, blowing a lot of cocaine in and out of community college and shit. I wasn't doing shit. Man, I couldn't figure it out you weren't working.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was working, you weren't working. Yeah, I was working, but working and blowing the money. So it's like whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so basically, you're not working if you're blowing the money. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, in the whole time too, I was still telling myself I'm going to be a rapper, I'm going to put out this music. I never got around to it until I got sober. I didn't publish any of those songs. I didn't work on the music until I finally got sober, because I told myself I don't deserve my creativity if I can't love myself.
Speaker 2:That's valid but hey, yo, during this time did you have your girlfriend? Because that's the same thing. You can't have a girl unless you love yourself too, right? No, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I was between, like I didn't start dating Lisa until 2020. So it was like October of COVID year Before that. If I was getting fucked up, I wasn't really dating anybody.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't work out.
Speaker 1:Man, I was super destructive, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 2:When did you write the book, man? That was 2019, 2020?.
Speaker 1:I actually. It's 2023. So I published the book last year, right? All of those writings are a compilation of everything I went through from 2016 to 2022. So there's writings over the course of those six years that I had put together. There's writings from when I was still using, there's writings from when I was deciding to get sober, when I got sober, and then years into my sobriety. So it's pretty spaced out. Honestly, I didn't put it together until 2022, though you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that sounds good, man, you didn't get to put together with the best mind possible.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, I was going to ask when did you graduate at GV?
Speaker 2:The year before you got yourself, failed out, or whatever 2016,.
Speaker 1:Right yeah, 2016.
Speaker 2:That's what I thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like. I was like, damn, I didn't see him in 2017. But then again, I was fucked up. I don't really remember a lot of that year. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2:You know, what's crazy is that when we were chilling, you hadn't I mean, I'm sure you were doing shit that I didn't know about, but you were pretty put together and chasing a dream like pretty well, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was on the Dean's list too, in 2016.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you're a smart dude. I'm not really that surprised. Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I was holding it together. I'll tell you that much. But you know, yeah, it's like I'm like a snowball man. Once I get going on something, it's all over. If I get going on good habits, I'll snowball and do a good individual If I yeah, I appreciate that. Once I get a couple bad habits in me, though, yeah, it's out of control. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 2:That's not good. So you couldn't even have a sipper beer at this point Right now. Oh no, I'm done no Like. If you had a sip, you'd have a. It'd be a good night.
Speaker 1:And I've talked about this with, like, my mentor before, because I had a therapist for the first three years that I was getting sober. That kind of helped me get sober right and we would talk about this instance. And he goes, you know what? Let's play out the next six months. Maybe you do smoke some weed, right, or maybe you do have a couple of beers that one night and you're really good about it, and you're like, oh, I'm just going to make this a monthly occurrence, right. And I'm like, yeah, I could do that. Or every other weekend in six to 12 months it's going to be an everyday thing. I'll tell you, dude, I'll be drinking a fifth a day. I'll be smoking an eighth of weed, I'll be getting cocaine Like there is no, there's no moderation for me, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:So you know I'm a fan of all of those substances, but some people have the propensity to go, you know, all out overboard. I should say yeah overboard. Overboard. I mean it's bad. I always say this to people, as bad as it sounds. I wish that we were able to have fun during that era of your life, because those are some good bonds that could be made during that time, although it was bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I still have like those bonds of like all my you know, all the homies that I partied with. You know, um, I don't, you know, for a long time, even at the start of my sobriety, and in some addicts I know, look back and regret those decisions and like, don't get me wrong, like addiction has a really nasty side and it ruins relationships, families and all that. It's got a bunch of negative things. But you know it would be. People wouldn't do that stuff if it wasn't fun and if it wasn't beautiful. If it wasn't beautiful in a sense you know like.
Speaker 1:I had a like so many good times on all that shit. You know, I'm not going to regret. I'm not going to regret who I am at this point. I just learned how to be myself without it, you know.
Speaker 2:So, so, you think you're a better person without it just because you're more productive?
Speaker 1:Me individually. Uh, yeah, it's. It's not even like the productivity, it's like the lens. I look through life now and and I'll I'll relate this to my bad habit that I've had in the last year. So, when I was putting the book out and publishing the book, I wanted to celebrate a little bit and I'm like I'm going to start smoking cigars again, right? So, uh, the last year I've been on and off with the tobacco and stuff, dude, immediately, like, my thought process changes. I just want to eat shitty food, I want to play video games. Everything I'm writing about is is depressing, you know. Um, I'm pleasure based at this point. So I've noticed that in my sobriety, complete sobriety, I work out, I eat, right, like I have a more positive outlook on life, like I'm more productive, like it's it's night and day, man, like the scale is totally outweighed in in my sobriety right now, I would never change anything, you know.
Speaker 2:Before I ask you I have a question about addiction. But before I ask you that, I want to ask you when you think about there's this like internet topic, is smoking weed, like, actually a good thing for everybody? I'm on the side where like like undoubtedly it makes you lazy and hungry, but that doesn't mean you still can't do. Get on your fucking shit and get the job done.
Speaker 1:I know, but it's like I know a lot of very, I know a lot of very productive people who still smoke. Um, but would they not? Be more productive without it, um it, it just depends man. Like you said, it makes you okay with being lazy and it makes you you know you get the munchies. It makes you hungry.
Speaker 2:Um after I have seen.
Speaker 1:You know like weed opened up my life to a lot of different ways of creativity that I had never imagined. You know, and um, out of everything, out of all the substances I've done, it was actually the easiest for me to get rid of, to be honest. Um, yeah, because it it made me so lazy. I'm like damn, I don't want to work out and I'm okay with eating burritos and donuts all day when I'm smoking weed.
Speaker 1:You know like that was it was really easy for me to give that one up. Um I, you know it's tough to say, man, I don't. I don't want to hate on weed cause it's got a lot of positive things, like I'm not hating on you either.
Speaker 1:I used to smoke a lot of weed too Right, you know, I look at everything through my new lens, but I always look at everything through. I'm a. I'm an extremist right, like if I like something, it's zero to a hundred. I'm doing it all the time, I don't care about the consequences, like I could lose all my money and all respect for myself. I'm going to get that pleasure. You know that's what addiction is. Um, there are people that can moderate things. I know people that can smoke weed and be creative and still work out and all that, all that other good all that good shit, you know.
Speaker 1:It's just different for everybody, you know.
Speaker 2:I agree it's not a one size fits all. No, it's not Um, but so I was going to ask you, at what point does it become addiction? Like I've got a couple of friends who do a lot of Adderall and then they claim they throw that word around, and I don't like that word being thrown around.
Speaker 1:Are you talking about?
Speaker 2:addiction. No-transcript. Yeah because I mean like I'm not an addict, but I would consider the definition of addiction being a complete derailment of like what you think of what a normal, functioning, ambitious person should be. So when I see people life together saying that they're addicted, I'm like all right.
Speaker 1:I would say addiction. Well, here's the thing I'm addicted to coffee, right? You know, I can't go a day without coffee anymore, like it's one of my only things that I ingest, that I still have in my life, you know, and I'm never going to get rid of that. I love coffee. It's an addiction.
Speaker 2:There's no negative side effects to being addicted to coffee.
Speaker 1:No, unless you're drinking too much cream and sugar in it, you know, but I drink it black, so I'm not too worried about that.
Speaker 2:And even then, most of your sugar would come from like a bad diet. That too Right.
Speaker 1:So and here's the other thing I was addicted to Adderall. I was taken. At most, I was taken like 120 milligrams a day for for months. I went into college in 2011 at 180 pounds. I was a baseball player in high school. I was just, like you know, your normal jock dude, whatever. And when I was admitted into outpatient in 2013, so a year and a half later, I was 130 pounds, so I lost 50 pounds, you know. So when people say they're addicted to it, it's like okay, if you're taking like 10 to 20 milligrams a day, like doctors prescribe that to people. You know, if you're hawking all of your shit to get money to take 60 to 80 milligrams Adderall a day, you're lying to your loved ones about where your money's going, or you're lying to your loved ones about where you're at while you're doing things Like there are a lot of signs for an addict that you can put together. Obviously, like you said, it's a complete derailment of life, you know, for a normal ambitious human being. So, so I do kind of. I agree with that.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I feel you it's, do you feel? I feel like now you're just pretty open minded, like everybody's struggle is your struggle. You don't want to compare struggles, but I myself find it okay to make everything relative. So like if someone is talking to John Sorone trying to compare addictions and then they say something that's not even close to what the typical addict goes through, it's kind of like an insult to what what you guys go through. But you know what I mean. You think you ever think of it like I after I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't view it Like that because I I understand, like you know, during my heavy addictions and stuff, like people in my family would kind of take shots, but I always kind of knew sometimes it came from a place of love. And one problem with America in general, like you said, like maybe you have a poor diet, like the addiction to sugar here in America and an unhealthy diet is out of this fucking world, you know. So it's great.
Speaker 1:It is crazy, like physical wellness is a huge problem. So I I see people who have a problem with food, with eating. I see people who have a problem with shopping. I have see people who have a problem with their cell phone and screen time. You know, I have an issue with that too. So I know that everybody goes through their addictions and their vices. Right Like I was never addicted to heroin. Right so I don't know what that's like, I was never addicted to Huh. But you tried it. No, I didn't try heroin.
Speaker 2:No, I wouldn't have judged you for that.
Speaker 1:I did try. I did try meth once and because I'm an uppers guy I never did downers, so heroin or like Vicodin and all that shit.
Speaker 2:I'm an up, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I didn't, I didn't fuck with any of that shit. But I don't like want to say like, like I was addicted to alcohol which, out of all my addictions, like I've never had the withdrawals that I had, like with alcohol. That's some heavy shit. You know like for two weeks I was like it was miserable, you know, like dry, heaving, throwing up, sweating through all of my clothes, like crying miserably, like it was fucked up.
Speaker 2:I was hard as fuck. It was.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was drinking a fifth a day for like a year, you know, and this one's a cool shit Like yo.
Speaker 2:this is relaxing I'm. This is some rage type. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting in my apartment by myself doing it. It wasn't some rage shit nearing the end of my addictions, I was very anti social, I was under my rock, I was very depressed. You know, it wasn't like I'm going to go out and party and stuff, like I did it all in my apartment pretty much, you know.
Speaker 2:So what I mean? I'm sure you've been through this with your therapist, but like, is it a deeper issue, while you felt the need to go overboard, like compensating for something or just it was just fun, because that's?
Speaker 1:cool. It started out as fun, though, you know, or like you always make it out, you know it always, like I said from the start, like we wouldn't have done these things unless like it was fun in a sense, or pleasurable, you know, to overcompensate, you know that's. That's actually interesting. The issue I was having is, you know, I couldn't forgive myself for how I had treated myself and how I had treated other people in my life. So, in order to make myself feel more ashamed and miserable, I dug a deeper hole.
Speaker 2:That shit is the craziest like thought process of all time.
Speaker 1:It's pretty fucked up. It's like it is one of the most negative things I've ever had the pleasure of encountering in my life, you know. I've never like, like, pure, pure hate, like I, like there are forms of hate towards other people. You know, we don't even need to go into it. Like the world has a lot of hate, but self-hatred is some of the most crazy shit I've ever seen, for sure, because it doesn't really make a lot of sense why we're doing it.
Speaker 1:It does, no, it doesn't, but now on the other side of it, like, like, how you said, my, my lens now, like, after being sober for four and a half years, what I've been able to accomplish, how I feel right now like I don't think I could ever go back, you know.
Speaker 2:Do you so like like. All of that was like instant gratification. It feels good right now. You feel like shit later. Oh, I didn't have you. Oh, you didn't feel like no.
Speaker 1:I just kept re-upping, though, If I started to come down, come down. You know, that's the thing, that that's the point of being like an addict, like normal, normal people I don't you know people who aren't normal like me. I have the periods where I don't like drink or use and stuff. Like you'll come down and be like all right, I'm going to start to another day, right, you're like I, it's like I said, from it's a snowball. You know, I'll keep going.
Speaker 2:You're telling me that you didn't have any periods where, like you know I'm I can't re-up on this because I don't have enough money or like so there had to be a situation where you didn't either didn't have enough money, you didn't have the transportation to get the hit the plug in, like what, what those?
Speaker 1:were filled with rage.
Speaker 1:Those were like angry moments you know, you know that, or I would try and go to bed so I wouldn't have to, like, think about coming down. You know, like, um, yeah, I mean, it's just not getting what you want. You know, it's almost like a childish tantrum in those moments. So, yeah, of course there's moments where you run out of money or I can't re-up. You know, and those were the moments that I was the most frustrated, you know, because I would be face to face with the, with the demons that I was facing at those moments, you know self hatred oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Fucked. What was? What was a breakthrough moment, though.
Speaker 1:Like the breakthrough moment was. I was. This was 2019. It was May and I had woken up in a pile of like spit and vomit right on my apartment floor. You know, I'd done it like a couple of times before that, but not I don't know. Something clicked that day and normally I would get up, crush a five hour energy, take a shower and try and go to work and act like you know. Nothing happened.
Speaker 1:But uh, I, like you, didn't wake up and Right exactly, and that day I just I don't know man, I was like dude, I'm not going to like make music, I'm not going to love myself, I'm not going to find someone to love me, like all of these things. I know that life has to offer me like. I won't be able to get them if I continue doing what I'm doing Right. And I had tried moderation. You know family members had been like people who didn't really understand it to like dude, just like moderate it, you know, and I'm like I tried for.
Speaker 2:Well, you don't think? I've tried that before.
Speaker 1:Like it was trial and error for like eight years and I'm like dude, I just I just can't do it, you know. But that, that mentality of like zero to a hundred, you know if I could harness it in a positive way, like writing books or doing podcasting, or creativity like I'm very relentless with stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 2:So and that was my question. Is that realization, and when supplied to positive things like that's everything is yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1:I do go overboard with the positive things sometimes and then I get burned out. You know, like I'll hoop, I'll play basketball like five, six days a week and then, you know, get a knee injury, you know, because I just hoop too much. You know, um, yeah, yeah, like I just fucking I love hooping. You know, or like I'll be so productive with writing and podcasting that I'll eventually get burned out and be like damn, I'm not even like an enjoying my other hobbies right now, you know.
Speaker 2:Moderation even is in everything. It's key, but better yeah of course.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, I just had to learn how to like start filling my time with more positive things, you know so.
Speaker 2:It seems like, or even just stopped doing the negative shit, and then everything just falls into place for you.
Speaker 1:Right, um, it's funny you say that too because, like the first year that I was sober, I just played video games and watched anime as it, that's not, that's not.
Speaker 1:No, it's not but I needed and I still had my e-sig at that point, like I was still smoking nicotine. But I told myself, um and this was actually an idea I was going to have for another self-help book, um called the hierarchy of habits I've talked about it a little bit on here where I was going to write a book explaining like my replacement process, like to replace old habits with good ones, you know. So I would start at the bottom with like my really bad habits, like the cocaine and alcohol, and then I'm like I can't like immediately replace those with like really good habits like eating salad and working out, cause the dopamine just don't hit like that, you know don't hit at all Right.
Speaker 1:So I needed to like replace it with a little something that's like okay, this isn't productive, but it's not. You know, drugs and alcohol. So I chose like anime and video games and then I slowly weaned off of those to like put more positive things, and you know, you, you can't go from zero to 100 all the time.
Speaker 2:Cuz on the.
Speaker 1:Everything else right, not I crashed and burned a million times attempting sobriety because I tried to replace all my bad habits with really good ones Right away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just never worked and that'll probably make you go right back. Exact that's what happened?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I failed.
Speaker 2:But you got it now, man. It's beautiful to see.
Speaker 1:I didn't even see you during this period of your life, though, so I'm just hearing it right like, read like yeah, I never saw it when we were chilling, I so, after the first stint I have had with addiction and failing out of school and stuff, I got my shit together for six months and I was completely stone cold, sober and I got straight A's at a community college and got re-accepted into Grand Valley and that that's when you met me on my time around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we might have talked about that, but that being so many years ago, I know it was a minute ago, but I started like using seldomly like.
Speaker 1:When you met me too, I was like, but, like I said, I was on the Dean's list, you know.
Speaker 2:So I was partying.
Speaker 1:Occasionally I was on the Dean's list, I had all my shit together and, like you said, I had my shit together, but I Don't know man, a year and a half, like I said, it's just a snowball. You know you, you lose a couple people in your life or some other life changes happen, and then I'll immediately go back to my old Addictions or comfort. You know, and it just destroyed me.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I mean I always wonder, like you, nobody can help you through this journey. It's like a self-realization, right? So what advice can you even really give to someone? Because, because they just got to make the choice themselves, at the end Of the day, I could tell you whatever you want. But if you don't do it like right.
Speaker 1:It's funny you said that too, because after three weeks of strong arming, my sobriety in 2019. So I got sober from the drugs and alcohol for three weeks and my one friend in my group here Referred me to my mentor at the time. They're like, oh, you need like a therapist or something. I'm like, yeah, she goes. Oh well, he's 27 years, sober too. And I'm like, okay, this is, this is perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I had a therapist growing up but he Couldn't relate that he couldn't help me through what I was going through at this point, you know. So I was like searching for a different Therapist and after having the first hour session With him, he goes well, I, I got some good news, I can see you, right, like I have a slot available to see you from now. And I'm like alright, this is great, he goes, you just have to promise me that you're not gonna use anymore. And I'm like Well, yeah, that's why I'm in here. And he goes no, like seriously, like if we're going to do this work, if you're going to heal, like you need to do it, do it right. So, like you said, I can give somebody advice, you know, but you have to make that decision to do it right. So so I did not. I'm sure the second said that you were just like.
Speaker 1:I took a step back and I was like man, I thought I came in here because I was gonna do that. And then when he said it again, I'm like oh shit, no, I'm actually gonna fucking do it. You know, like I'm doing it doing it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's that's where I'm at if I had to give any advice to somebody. And here's the other thing I just had an episode with my cousin last week. My cousin was addicted to fast food and smoking weed, you know. And then for COVID he lost like 70 pounds and turned his life around for the better, you know. And he he occasionally has like a glass of scotch and a cigar, you know, here and there, you know he isn't a full-blown addict like I am. He's able to moderate it. But he had to take a step back and realize what health is, you know? And then he was able to enjoy these things seldomly.
Speaker 1:I know a few people in my life who can do that. So I think the advice that I would give people is like try and understand what kind of addict you are. If you're gonna put yourself In this conversation, if you just need to give it up completely like hey, man, it's, it's, it's nice over here, I'll tell you that it's. Also, if you don't think you're as extreme as me but you want to get some shit figured out, like how you look at yourself or your relationships or your health, then just take a break from a few things you know like you gotta imagine like life is like sometimes 60 to 80 years long, like you don't need to be fucked up for most of your adult life.
Speaker 2:You know like fucking chill hey you know, we think we do, we do and we know it's, we know it's fucking fun. I mean, I know it is.
Speaker 1:It is fun and I don't know. I always like after taking Eastern philosophy at at Grand Valley that year I was there the second time around. I look through a lens of like Buddhism a lot and Taoism like. I spent eight years like destroying my body and my life. So man trying to like do the opposite. You know, it's always a balance, like you've said, or moderation.
Speaker 2:Yes, I always tell my friends it's it's way more fun to realize your life purpose and like get that shit, oh God, yeah, like you think it's so fun doing this, but like, especially my artist friends, for sure, just doing drugs, not making any music. I'm doing it with them, but I'm also doing the work like making right yeah, and that that's actually the most fun. All that is Achieving your life purposes, right.
Speaker 2:Anybody can party, not everybody anybody can party not everyone can find their life purpose and and and even if you find it putting the work into, I like Like those guys know their life purpose. They're just like not Grabbing onto it. You know what you're meant to do yeah.
Speaker 1:We I know, we know it, when you find it too, sometimes you try and doubt yourself too. You know, sometimes you try and give yourself reasons on why it's not gonna work out or some shit like that. You know you. Just that's okay too. It is okay. You know. I viewed as a journey also like if I, if somebody told me like 10 years ago and I was in the midst of everything that in 10, 10 years down the road I was gonna be completely sober, trying to find a way to help other people attain their dreams, I would have been like no, I'm gonna just party and be a Famous rich rap star when you're 20.
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then like pieces start falling into place with your purpose and you gotta just move with it, you know.
Speaker 2:The conscious decision is. I'm saying and then? And then I mean people Take it as preaching when you try to say these things. Yeah, I'm just keeping it real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you're gonna look back on this combo not you and me, but whoever and be like yeah, yeah, we don't view it it we, we take things too personally sometimes, like if you were to say something like that people like, well, you're just, you're taking shots at me, you know, I'd out of like a sense of pride and then, realistically, you're doing it out of a sense of love, like, no, I want to see you succeed, you know.
Speaker 2:Dude, I have a bunch of friends like that. I'm how can I believe in you more than you believe in yourself? And then you take that as a fence, that I believe in you more than you believe in yourself? You should be like damn bro, like thank you bro right, but we don't view it at that moment.
Speaker 1:Nah, there, though, too, trust me, I think we've all been there before. Like, like I said, when you're younger especially when you're younger you take things as like a personal shot, you know. And then, as I've gotten older and, like I said, with the sobriety like everything just so clear to me right now, when people like talk to me and when I listen to myself and all that stuff, it's, it's being able to take a step back and being self aware of it, you know.
Speaker 1:Like self-awareness, everything there there's loving places where you never thought there was love pretty much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is. That's, that's powerful, right there. I love that. I like that. Backyard dog right there.
Speaker 1:So when is your next album coming out?
Speaker 2:buddy Dog, it's in the works, man All right man, you know, you know what it is Just all the tracks are done. Just trying to get the mixing done. Yeah, man, I actually have a lot of content, a lot that's good, so I ain't worried on that for a man. Sure, I'll be waiting for, I'll be waiting for it to drop. I really appreciate listening to all your projects right when they drop Word up.
Speaker 2:Man and Yo man, you're not even as close with me as some of my good friends, but you tap in More than the people who I would expect to tap in. So I always, I never, forget shit like that. You and your brother show it up. Yeah, after a year showing up, taking time out of your week, your day, it's all love, man, like we were saying, you just want to see the homie succeed, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you put your money where your mouth is and pulled up yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I ain't, I ain't front man, you know that.
Speaker 1:No. I gotta cop that book, man like.
Speaker 2:It's ASAP. Wait, you ain't got a copy yet. I Feel like I swear. I bought one, bro. You bought one, you took a picture of me.
Speaker 1:I bought one of you. I feel like.
Speaker 2:I swear, I bought one bro.
Speaker 1:You bought one, you took a picture of it and sent it over snap.
Speaker 2:Just never.
Speaker 1:I never chopped it up with you sure that's I was gonna say, if you, if you want another copy, I'll send you one. I got a bunch of. I got a bunch of copies right now.
Speaker 2:Now I might be in my car because I read all the time. I'm trying to see it's probably it's in there, yeah.
Speaker 1:I had. I had an episode with With Muncie. I've had a couple episodes with Muncie, so he actually he actually did some reading and then he wanted to talk to me about the book, too that we did on an episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, now, I wish I would have done that. But and do you have any plans to write another book, though? I mean, it's high time. That was what, like a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I got it actually. Well, I got a couple man, you know. So I was gonna write that hierarchy of habits book, which was gonna be like a step-by-step self-help book about how to get your habits and vices under control. But I had some shit happen earlier this year that made me Write almost like an entirely new book back in May or June. Dude, in like, in like three weeks, I wrote 20,000 words in three weeks. I just fucking pumped it out and the next book is going to be it's just gonna be called F. Lisa doesn't like it. I'm just gonna call it F.
Speaker 2:Okay, so she's got a point from like a Perception standpoint, people would be like half right type shit. I could go like on the internet.
Speaker 1:When you say F like, you're just like saying like fuck, you know, right, which is like a running joke with a bunch of gamers and stuff. But originally I was just gonna call it fear, forgiveness and freedom, right. And Then I wanted to throw failure in there too and I'm like that's too many fucking apps. There's four apps, you know. On the title, let's just call it F, right.
Speaker 2:Where I get the. When you explain it, it makes perfect right.
Speaker 1:She goes. Maybe you should put it in small font on the front. I'm like you know, I'll hire a PR person for that shit, you know. But uh, but I wanted to write on. Forgiveness was like a topic I really wanted to like dive into, cuz I I can't really say I'm religious anymore after being raised really religious, and I Want to touch base on that topic for people who aren't religious. You know, like the topic of forgiveness is something Even when I was a practicing Christian I didn't understand it fully, you know. So I Just wanted to dive into to that topic to try and make it more accessible for everybody, even if you are religious or not.
Speaker 2:You know, I I don't even think the word has like religious. It shouldn't have religious connotations, like some shit is like human, like you can explain that without even ever mentioning religion to me, for example. Some people need to draw that religious parallel, but I never view things in a religious lens, like anything, and honestly, breaking it down that way to me would make me like turn me off. Well, yeah, so it's for me, it's everybody work.
Speaker 1:That's how I am right now too. So I was actually raised, you know, private school like super religious, like I was like Lutheran or Christian reformed or something like that. So everything had that kind of like religious lens or overbearingness of it. So I wanted to try and like talk about that without the religious aspect of it. You know Cause.
Speaker 1:I think, one of the biggest reasons why people don't find their life's purposes cause they don't forgive themselves for making mistakes when they're finding it. You know, like we make a few mistakes on our path and we're like, well, I'm just not gonna make it or I'm not gonna figure it out. You know, I'm just gonna work this job and pay the bills and shit. You know, cause you don't forgive yourself for just fucking living. You know.
Speaker 2:That shit is crazy too. Like I don't. I feel like a lot of people do actually have that figured out. If you look at anyone who was, like, accomplished anything, they realized that mistakes are just part of the journey. You wouldn't you have to make mistakes before you make, like the right move. You have to. It's honestly good that you're making mistakes. That means you're trying yeah. Some people that shouldn't be taken out so late.
Speaker 1:Some people are afraid of failing, though I was too. We were.
Speaker 2:It sucks.
Speaker 1:I still think, yeah, I mean, it fucking sucks, you know, but you gotta like roll with the punches, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:I think and this is where I always have a problem with I've got a friend who thinks that I don't feel that same fear. Some people just recognize the fear, take it as part of what it is, but we still feel that same fear you feel, just disregard it. My friends got a fear of like putting music out and getting judged. As if I don't have that fear every time I release a track, but I know that it's just all right, it's part of the game, right? I'm scared too, brother. I'm scared too. I'm even more scared now that I got something to protect A little bit of, a little bit of buzz to protect. I'm even more scared than I was back then. Got it. So you know I get it.
Speaker 1:On that front, I think and it's tough being an artist in general, like when I was putting out gloving videos or like when I actually I did that Grand Valley talent show in 2016, and I did like a whole choreographed dance with like the gloves on my hands and shit. I was so nervous. I remember seeing that takes balls, brother. That takes balls, brother, Dude I know it fucking, and I I wasn't even fucked up doing it, I was completely sober, you know, and that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm saying you know, I was worried about putting music out too, but then I started to realize, like dude, nobody's gonna be more critical about my work than me. You know, like if somebody's gonna drop a comment on how I suck, I've already said it to myself in some way, shape or form, as a critic, as an inner critic of my artist experience, right. So I just realized I'm like dude, I gotta put this shit out. Like no one's gonna roast me better than I've roasted myself already. You know.
Speaker 2:I think, I think, that's that's true too. That's true too.
Speaker 1:And in a sense you gotta realize that, for all the people who might give you shit for what you put out, you gotta look at how many people you're affecting in a positive manner, who are gonna enjoy your shit, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, once again, that's what I would try to tell anyone who's scared. There's a lot of people Right who need to hear that, and even they'd hear that and still be like, nah, whatever.
Speaker 1:And it likes too short for that shit, though, man.
Speaker 2:Hey, it is, it is man Flex that tattoo real quick. Which one? Oh, the latest one man, the latest sleeve. Wait, hold up. He said, wait, hold up, I got too much.
Speaker 1:Baby Still getting filled in right, I just had that.
Speaker 2:Yo, that rosary at the end is crazy. That's dope.
Speaker 1:And then I got that right there.
Speaker 2:I hold it low five dog with the analog clock for the woo tough. Tough, that's tough, baby, yo, that's tough.
Speaker 1:That's tough, this one on this arm I just had done last week, last Thursday, so most of the scabs are off, so I'm finally gonna be able to hoop tomorrow. I'm fucking so ready for it, man.
Speaker 2:You like hoop and doler, you like doing like five on five runs one on one.
Speaker 1:So recently, in the last couple months or this summer and this year, I've been playing like a lot more 32. And I got a buddy who's trying to get back into hooping. So what's 32? 32 is like 21, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly play to 32.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you play well it's like one on one, so like if there's four people, you play up to 32 by twos and threes. If you miss the shot, the person who gets the rebound. You guard them. So it's just one on one essentially the whole game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, everyone's got their iterations of games. That sounds like King of the.
Speaker 1:Quarter. Yeah, essentially yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got you okay.
Speaker 1:King of the court's a little different, though, because you're literally playing one on one, but in 32, like, everybody's there trying to get the rebound and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I used to play fives like four or five days a week. You know, I'd play at LA Fitness. That was where I would run fives with everybody. I haven't been running fives this year, though, because, man dude, sometimes it's just a big ego contest.
Speaker 2:Bro. That's what I don't play. Bro, I'm the chill. I ain't got time to yo butt heads with anybody. I'm just trying to get my cardio on G.
Speaker 1:Dude, it sucks. Listen, it's like I'm just trying to have fun, like, don't get me wrong. Like when you see me out there, I'm 110% Dennis Rodman out there you know I'm running right, but the minute you start arguing about shit like this the NBA I'm like bro.
Speaker 2:Yo cats is tripping dog, like there's too much testosterone going around.
Speaker 1:Like yo Dude people got to chill man.
Speaker 2:And I've always been like the cat to let my game talk Like oh, you think it's a foul, you can have that, take the ball back. I'll defend you and get that ball back, right? Or oh, okay, I can't call a foul back, you can have a ball, whatever. Like game talks. Well, what we talking about.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't like getting fucking mad about that shit anymore. So I just stopped going, because there used to be a Snapchat group where everyone would say which LA fitness they were going to play at during the week, and I just left the group. I'm like this ain't good for me, man. I got some bad juju rubbing off on me, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just not. It's never that serious With anything. I feel like no, Ego is crazy. Like even someone cuts you off on the road and you feel the need to get into some road rage. Man, Like fuck it all with you. Like it's not chill, it's not. It's not that big of a deal, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's that self-awareness though being able to take a step back. You know I'm not perfect. I get mad all the fucking time, especially about what you just said road rage Because man people be driving dumb as fuck out here. So it's it's.
Speaker 2:But to ever let that get physical is just like.
Speaker 1:Oh God, yeah, no, I could never. I'm not like that, hell no.
Speaker 2:If you see it all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know what people got to groove, though man, it's they hey.
Speaker 2:It's the ego, right, it is, and that's a big problem and not to get like race related but like a big thing in the black community is like proven that who's tougher than who.
Speaker 1:I gotta act all hard, and this gangsta this gangsta Like all right. Well, as you may know, it's more. You know I live outside of the city, but there's like basketball, it's not a white person sport, as you as you know, you know, there's you know, not a lot of white people can hoop, so I'm just telling you that Yo, that's mad funny.
Speaker 2:Doug.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean I, you know, I just say it out is you know it's, it's tough, but you know, I, I see it's not. Even when I'm playing, when I'm hooping. It's not really a race thing because there's so many different races on the court. And, like you said, ego is a problem man, ego is a problem Everyone's. It's a man problem. Everybody's trying to be tougher than everyone.
Speaker 2:Bro, that shit is so wack to me. That's even why I've got even certain friends who are supposed to be your brothers, but they put on this air of like competition. We're not even competing. You're my dog, Right? Why are you trying to? Why are you trying to big bro me right now? I'm not even competing with you. You're competing with me, and it's one side Like bro, we don't got to do that thing you do with other people. Like we can actually just be like Chill.
Speaker 1:Not, you know, just be like normal friends, like like a rivalries one thing or like if you're playing super smash bros and talking shit to each other, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, oh, that's where it's like I'm talking yeah, you know that's good competition.
Speaker 1:But if you're like trying to compete in life and like put your homies down and shit, it's like nah, Shit is good.
Speaker 2:I've got friends that I can't. I can no longer be around them, even though I want to be, but that constant need to like prove something. You don't need to prove things to your friends.
Speaker 1:Those are the last people you need to like do play that game, no cause the real ones are the ones who like respect you for who you are already you know, so you ain't gotta prove shit, right.
Speaker 2:Say what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it's, yeah, I don't know, man Fuck. I mean, if you've realized that there's some people you can't like hang around like that's also another thing that came with my sobriety too. Like I said, I still have all my homies who still use and shit like that. I still needed to give that a break in order to recalibrate my life. You know, you have to make this Right. I mean that just comes with growing, though too, you know it does.
Speaker 2:It's sad, though, like you're not conducive to my new mission, I can't really hang around with you. You can't fuck with it, nope, and honestly you'd be to both kill on both sides.
Speaker 1:Dog yeah right, it just turns the whole thing sour, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've even got friends who, like they don't drink or like they don't even drink it. Like I'm not, I don't drink like you did, but drinking is a big thing, just for the atmosphere that I like to be a part of, right, like I like to go to the bar and play pool and throw back a couple drinks, just like any dude. But if you're not into that, like you're not really gonna kick it with me a lot, right, just cause that's my atmosphere.
Speaker 2:Right, Right and it's as simple as that. Friends I haven't seen in a minute. They just don't like to do that shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do like playing pool, you know. But there is a limit to how long I can stay out in a bar setting. But you know I don't have a billiards table in my house, so you know I gotta go somewhere to play, you know.
Speaker 2:That's the only reason I want a house is for that. Then I wouldn't even leave the crib.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm just waiting for a fucking house bro. I'm sick of this apartment living.
Speaker 2:What you mean, it's a bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got a two bedroom right now.
Speaker 2:In Chicago. It must be nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I actually got a hookup with one of the one of the clients we have for bookkeeping is a real estate person, so he hooked us up with a really nice place to rent out.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's the beauty of life is connections.
Speaker 1:Man, life is all about connections. I had to come off from under my rock to realize that you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yo, I had this conversation with a friend too. You're robbing people of your who John Cerrone is by being under that rock, You're not only robbing yourself from making connections people need.
Speaker 1:John too, people need everybody, man, people need you Word, but you were robbing the world. Yeah, I know, I know. I had, I had see, that's the thing I had to love myself first before I was confident coming out, you know.
Speaker 2:That was the thing.
Speaker 1:Now I'm trying to like share who I am with all those other people who need to hear that you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look at that, that podcast you were telling me about that. They won that like your niche in the addiction they shot at you. I'll talk about yo yo. Come on Arsia, we like your story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the wellness one, bro. Yeah, look at that. That was crazy too, cause I had always thought that this is just gonna be a shoot the shit type of thing in person. Then I started getting hit up by people who have like heard my story and stuff. So I gotta get back on that like guest speaking trying to hit some people up. You know I got to. I'm trying to come out with a new book again, so I could like start marketing that, though you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean your professionalism comes through. Yeah, like, even if you're seeing this shit, you could tell like this guy's are really not playing around on the aesthetics front, right? He's an eloquent speaker, he's got a good background and shit yeah. Got the stir at some set of being all that?
Speaker 1:Hey boy, I'm playing, hey boy, I'm playing around. You see that Mike Sheesh Beautiful. God, I got two of these motherfuckers bro. I might as well put them both up, put two mics next to each other, just just yeah, just to flat on these motherfuckers.
Speaker 2:Flexin' Got two motherfuckers.
Speaker 1:I should man have one like?
Speaker 2:have one going down, have one going up, like yeah, yeah, I got two, yeah.
Speaker 1:Got two. Yeah, it was a good cop, when I got these microphones, I was like I think it was in February and I'm like I was using an AKG and a Bluebird mic. But the Bluebird mic was for, like, when I was recording the rap vocals, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, music yeah. Condenser versus it was like a broadcast mic, right yeah. So Radio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in February, I'm like man, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to fucking do this right. So I just went into guitar center and I'm like you better hook me the fuck up right now.
Speaker 2:And that's a decision anyone who's serious has to make. Invest in yourself, right, right, and you, you. It may not even been the final, the right moment financially, but you knew you'd be all right and that it was just. It was the right move to make.
Speaker 1:You know, for me, when you're finding your purpose, man like sometimes money doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:You know it never matters. I hate when, like, okay, it does matter, well, let's like not lose your fucking apartment, right, right, but this tour that I booked I lost money every single, every single day. I had to go to the road trip, the expenses, the Airbnb's, I had to break people off. Sometimes the turnout wasn't popping and like, all in all it was an L financially, but it was a dub for meeting people making fans and hitting the ground.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that was probably the best fucking part, though, man, I'll do it again. But it it was like yeah, I don't want to hear people saying like, yeah, uh, like it was an L financially and that's, that's a given Of course I mean when you're starting out with anything like that, like I took a huge L putting out the book and all the other stuff with that, like it ain't cheap to do that shit, you know.
Speaker 1:Same thing with same thing with producing music, Like if you're going to have it mixed and mastered correctly, studio time and shit. It's an expensive fucking hobby and it's an expensive fucking dream to start out. I'll tell you that For sure. But the dub is, the dub is doing it, you know, actually doing it. That's the dub First.
Speaker 2:Okay, Dude that's in my bio. No, I had to change my social media bio to something I heard Deon Sanders say. He said him and no chose, cinco, we're going at it. He said yeah, man, I don't talk, my game is too loud because, like my fuckers, be talking but I don't need to talk Cause, like you see what the fuck I'm doing, that'll speak louder than whatever I say.
Speaker 1:Like, was that on a podcast?
Speaker 2:It was man. You know the football NBA podcast they do now that everyone was the batonwoods.
Speaker 1:Por these in December.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it wasn't on Shaysay, it was like Brandon Club chase a smile.
Speaker 1:I fucking love on command. He's the man. Yeah, yeah, podcast peas, dope to.
Speaker 2:Yo, so you. So you do watch the basketball joints Podcast peas. Don't play Thompson.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard plays and Dreymons really that much, but I I like. I like podcast P. I know Pat Bebs got one. I Like JJ Reddick. Sometimes I just like the shortened clips of everything you know, but Podcast P has really good guests on like. I love when he has like DeMar come on, or he has like.
Speaker 2:Because they were like they all. Those three were friends from a like college and a. You like even the, the guest on podcast P the point guard. Yeah they were telling stories of like parties and shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that shit. Honestly, basketball is the only sport like I like watch, watch, so invested in that.
Speaker 2:You should have me as good. I Love that sport too and I only watch when I got like a parlay going to be honest.
Speaker 1:But that's the one addiction I never got into. Man my brothers are my brothers a big gambler, but See, everybody got, everybody does everyone. Yeah, I just always viewed it like damn, how can I gamble this money away if I needed to like spend it on booze? You know, that was like that was. That was what would go on in my head with the gambling. It's either the gambling or the doing the drugs, you know.
Speaker 2:So I was like see, that's what that's actually. What's actually interesting is what. What you hold importance on or other likes, I would assume, the adrenaline of gambling, the possibility to win the jackpot, but you're like, nah, I need that, right, right well, he used to be.
Speaker 1:He used to be a heavy alcoholic too. He turned his shit around to start chasing that running dream, you know so.
Speaker 2:And did he? Was he collegiate runner? No, he just wanted to right now, he pitched.
Speaker 1:He was a pitcher at a College, a d3 college here, so he was a lefty pitcher in college. No, he was not a runner, though.
Speaker 2:I do want to do one thing straight I don't care what level of collegiate sports you play, it's an, it's an impressive thing that sets you apart from Someone who didn't get to that level.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:I got nothing but respect for it for anybody, on any collegiate tough I.
Speaker 1:I crapped out, I didn't. My dad was so mad because I was supposed to play at Grand Valley when I graduated high school.
Speaker 2:You had what it took, and that's, I'm sure, that bites at you even to this day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I like basketball more. Now, man and uh See that's a cop, that's well, here's the other thing.
Speaker 1:I knew that I was a good baseball player, but and this is me getting down on myself too but after seeing, like some of the other people who are coming in to play at a division two school, I'm like, dude, I'm not riding bench man, I'm not, I'm not that guy, I knew it like physically, like, if we're talking from a physical standpoint in genetics, like there are some people in this world who are more blessed than me.
Speaker 2:I had your skill level, that you're not genetically blessed and you're still with those right it was all skill.
Speaker 1:I. I had a really good first step in the outfield. I was really quick, I made good decisions, like I. I it was all skill based, you know, but I just wanted a party which was at the real reason because I knew going into it. I'm like, if I'm gonna play baseball at Grand Valley State, I'm not gonna have time to like mingle with people, party or even work on studies or do what I want. You know, like, like you said, it's mad respect for people who do a college level sport.
Speaker 1:Right and I didn't want to make those. So I.
Speaker 2:I'm sure a lot of people can agree. That's why I have respect for them that they did that because for sure, yeah, my brother made those. No, you go ahead you good.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say it's, it's. It's always like to find out how much respect is deserved, because you've got the people who actually aren't into the partying, so they don't even have that as a potential distraction. And then you've got the people like you who love partying and love the sport. You have to deal with that distraction. Some people really just aren't like into that right. So it's it's. And this is another huge thing with me some things are easier for other people, based on the circumstances around certain vices and all of that, right you. You've got your guy who's a bookworm and doesn't party, or was an athlete and doesn't party, does just even enjoy it. And you've got John Sarone, who likes both. Let's stay on path with his harder for John Right. Just yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was harder for me to. I mean most people who I I haven't been formally diagnosed but after. So my girlfriend is a uh, she's a special education teacher in the city of Chicago. So she's you know, she deals with a lot of um, neurodivergent students and people, and After dating for three years, she like points out a lot of like my adhd ticks and stuff like that you know. So it was very difficult for me to do one thing because I wanted to do all the things right.
Speaker 2:So I'll look at that slide. I, the America. I'll tell you what America is, the number one culprit of youth throwing those words around, right as I mean it's like how she's dangerous.
Speaker 1:Like some people some which I was also very blessed because I didn't get tested as a kid Like if they tested me as a kid and threw me on Adderall at seven or nine, like I would not be the person I am today. I don't think, just yeah, sometimes it's over. It's over prescribed, whatever they're doing in big pharma.
Speaker 2:So and it's. It's not even just over prescribed. It starts from the parents just not saying hey, my kid just needs to buckle to fuck up. Oh, oh wait, there actually is something wrong with them, or he just they're not focused.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it does fall on the parents inability to deal with certain things. Like let, I'm not gonna say that there, there are people out there who need help. You know, like from some of the stories you know that I've I've heard like there are people who are neurodivergent, you know, but sometimes you know there's there's bad parenting too. Let's just say that.
Speaker 2:Dude, yeah, and I'll also even bring it. I saw this Facebook meme of like Frozen pizza and how the pepperoni comes all scattered and you like to take the frozen pizza, arrange the pepperonis in a logical order. And then someone commented yeah, that's my ADHD. And then there were a bunch of comments talking about Uh, we just want the pepperoni evenly.
Speaker 1:Uh, that's not a d that's.
Speaker 2:And that that describes America Thinking you're in need to place a piece of pepperonis.
Speaker 1:ADHD.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's just I want. I just want the pizza to be like I want.
Speaker 1:I want a good amount of pepperoni in each bite.
Speaker 2:And that damn sure isn't a dhd.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:That's. That's what's going on.
Speaker 1:It's yeah, people mislabeling things like that. I understand that it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 1:I definitely. You know, like you were saying, like there's the bookworm who doesn't have the distraction of party, and then there's the people who do the bookworm stuff, like in high school, like I was super nerd, like I watched anime and I still played pokemon in video games and I was, I was really good at school, but then I was a jock in every other aspect, you know um.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. I mean, that was should. I was, me too, I was having pokemon battles highest fucking apart Our basketball sophomore year. But like, but that's not even because that's basically saying you can't, you just have different interests, right? Like there's uh, nba players who love anime a lot. That doesn't take away from athletic progress.
Speaker 1:Well like like you were saying it. There's some things that are easier for other people or Like, and there's priority. So I didn't want to be a college level athlete Because I couldn't be a nerd and party, you know, but you could?
Speaker 2:some people did do it all. Yeah, I, I fucking got that, though, and that's what I'm saying. It's okay to admit that somebody Can handle life better, or those amount of that amount of time, constriction you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like some people are really better at things, that's okay. Like I have no problem admitting that there are certain people better at writing roms than me. Like, uh, they probably worked harder at it or maybe they're just naturally better, it's okay. But People have a problem like admitting that yo, maybe this cat is just a hell of a human being.
Speaker 1:They're just a guy's fucking just the little. They're more disciplined, that's it.
Speaker 2:That's it at the end of the day, and you should.
Speaker 1:That's simple. Trying to be more disciplined as time goes on is the key, which was also why I wanted to get sober too, because, yeah, like like I've said throughout this hour, it's my my head's more clear, you know, I'm able to be more disciplined on the things I needed to in order to be productive.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, and you've got a brother who's still dabbling in and I'm sure that's finding that line of when you need to call it quits with your bro before something bad happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, oh, you mean my brother, like my homies, your brother, no, he's, he's good.
Speaker 1:He's one of the most he's. He's such an inspirational person. He's one of the most driven people I know. Like I, I've never met somebody who's more healthy in terms of the food they eat and how they take care of their body than my brother. You know he, he just likes, you know, throwing some money around gambling here or there. You know there are, there are people, there are a few people in my life who, like you've stated, like they're the partying thing, um, or the not knowing their purpose and stuff like that. And there are people I have in my life who are like that, you know, and, like you had stated earlier, like you, you only want them to succeed and you tell people things like and people take it personally, right. So there are people that you spend a little less time with as you get older, right, but that just comes with changing, right it does it's sad because ideally you uh all be on the same page mentally and help each other grow.
Speaker 2:But it's a personal decision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a hard cookie to swallow too, because you know they're the homies, right.
Speaker 2:Are they really the homies? Are they really? Oh god, because what they were with that? What they were was really the party homies, the drinking homies, the video game homies, the anime homies, and then you've got your actual homies who, regardless of interest, there's your homies yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the ride or die right there yeah all I've got right now.
Speaker 2:We're like, uh, situational homies, wheeeee homies, that homies. I've got a couple like homies, all right, you know.
Speaker 1:It's tough, man. It's tough coming to those conclusions though. Yes, it's sad, yeah, but you know, finding finding yourself on the path to your purpose is way more rewarding, you know.
Speaker 2:So what is your purpose, though? Like or do you got?
Speaker 1:have you nailed?
Speaker 1:one down bro, I was just I. You know I've had a problem, which is the the reason why I was dabbling with the tobacco this whole year too, because I have like a weird thing where I want to be like a hero, you know, but nobody's got superpowers right. The only thing I want to first save myself, and then, with that story, I just want to help people live a better life. I don't know if it's gonna be. You know, I'm not like a personal trainer. I'm not here to get you shredded for a marvel movie. You know I'm not here to teach you how to make a million dollars, but what I can offer you is Everybody has the capability to Make the sacrifices to live a good life. That's all I want to give people is to tell them that it is possible, you know.
Speaker 2:And I would argue that you got to show.
Speaker 1:I know yeah, I'm trying. I got a podcast. You know I I'm trying. I got a little bit going. You know I'm trying to do like public speaking, though, too, I want to get out into that realm too.
Speaker 2:Dude, I was listening to you at the beginning of this podcast and that's all I was hearing like this motherfucker would be a public speaker. I thought you know, I just envisioned you talking to like a thousand people. Like that's the kind of energy you gave off when the show. That's the kind of energy you gave off when the shit first started.
Speaker 1:Like I am.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that I gotta. I've actually been talking to my dad because he's a. He used to be a promoter. He promoted my family promoted christian rock concerts for like 20 years. Um, so he, he's a hell of a promoter. So I, uh, my mom and him and I sat down one night and she's like you should promote your son. And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to do the public speaking, so we're gonna work on Like a script, we're gonna work on something. Uh, I gotta, I gotta start getting out there. I gotta do more than just the podcast and write a book. You know, so would you ever?
Speaker 2:would you ever come out to Lansing to speak upon your story about?
Speaker 1:addiction. Yeah, I'll go anywhere, man.
Speaker 2:I think. I think that should be your first one. I've got a friend who's also an ex addict and he's a part of this organization and he speaks publicly. But Hearing anyone's story is helpful you know, I'm down to.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not, no, I'm down to do some shit like that. I just need to get my foot in the door and I've actually told my story like a hundred times. I mean, now that I think about it, the two podcasts that I guess spoke on they asked me about my story all the time.
Speaker 2:So, um, how long does it take you to tell your story? Just curious.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can make it as short or long as possible. That's the thing I don't want to say. Like you can really make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could man.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know it's like you want to make it like a half hour or 45 minutes, or sometimes you even want to make it like 15 minutes. That's why that's the shit that I haven't worked on yet is like I need to come up with a condensed version for shorter performances and then I need to come up with a longer one for longer ones you know, we're sure an adaptive Story for any situation, really, even like a one-liner, like yo, I had some with this shit Right, there's some big gas right here.
Speaker 1:I'll hit you with five minutes of me telling you you can chase your dreams because I fucked my life up.
Speaker 2:Change the motherfucker life in five minutes. Whoa, five minutes, whoa. That's big right there, and you might even got in them on the first 30 seconds and then you just listen in for the rest of like.
Speaker 1:They hear me like for 30 seconds to like this guy, this guy right here.
Speaker 2:I've heard shit like that where I'm I know like Instantly, like yeah this man knows what he's talking about. Yeah, that's what I felt when I was you started talking and then I'm like yo, what's my fuck coming on like he's a public speaker and shit like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate. You know it's weird because, like when I asked my brother to come with me to your show too, I'm like, yeah, you want to come to a rap show? He goes, yeah, who we see? And I'm like you know, it's my buddy from college. And then we're in the car, like driving somewhere, and I put like Leaves of memories uh, the first song on that. And he's like and then it finished playing and he goes Damn, that was lit.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, you know what he's talking about, so yeah, we, I think we listen to the leaves of memories album the whole way down to your show too.
Speaker 2:See, now you guys know how to set the mood. Yeah you know, setting it up, oh of course. Let's dive into this guy before we go see him live.
Speaker 1:That's, that's extra and on the way back, goddamn.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. The post Like See, I'm that type of guy where I like to like dive into the whole thing, make it a thing like you guys did. You listen to me before the show and after the show, like it's like some people are surface level Fans. I guess.
Speaker 1:I, I will. I will say that my memory and this, this goes for all the rap I've listened to like my memory is really bad with names of songs, because I'll literally just play discographies of like artists and I'll just let the fucking songs go. Right, so I can. Yeah, so I could just study like rhymes, cadence and all that shit like.
Speaker 2:I don't really want to get.
Speaker 1:Like, of course there's, like you know, the song I've listened to like a million times by gangsta, which is like above the clouds, like I'll name some. Yeah, everyone knows that right, you know. But like generically or generally speaking, when I like play rap it's From front to back and I'm not like looking at the name of the song, I'm just like listening to the vibe of the song, like the story the album's trying to tell you know, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But after we listen to it he goes damn, he fucking spit. I'm like hell, yeah, he's fucking spit.
Speaker 2:Yo, that's what's up, man. That's, that's love, man.
Speaker 1:But like you were like you were saying though, when you heard me talk, or like when you hear somebody, you're like man, this guy's got it. Or like that. Like when we listen to your song, my brother was like this guy's fucking got it, you know yeah, see, and, and no one's gonna lie to you, just don't.
Speaker 2:Just I hope people don't go out of the way to give gas, because that's just weird. But me personally, like I, I'm not gonna say anything rather than gas you up. So any gas I give is completely warranted. Know that I mean.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't just do it, to do it like um, yeah, I gas up the homies because you put, I surround myself with people who put in the work. You know like, I don't think that we met by like Chance or anything. I forgot who. I forgot who, like introduced us to each other.
Speaker 2:I think it was. Yo, I want to say was disco, was it not disco? Who's disco, you know? Was it not even fucking? I thought it was Skyler. Was it Scotland Perkins, you know? Scotland, yeah, yo, okay, me and Scotland, we can, me and Scotland are still friends to this day. Nice, that's crazy. That's crazy that it was Scotland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember because we were just talking in the common room and he goes oh, I'm gonna go upstairs and we're gonna hang out with some people. Oh, they do music and shit too, and that's when I fucking met you. Yeah, and I'm like no shit.
Speaker 2:Oh dog, looking back on shit like that, like I used to be in scholars room he'd have a M audio mic, he was recording on Reaper and like it was the most dingy, motherfucking music shit of all time, but like that was the only way I could like kick it with cats who were in the music Right Fucking mattress for the sound.
Speaker 1:It was. The treatment was like a mattress.
Speaker 2:Like was on some janky shit and I'm just like this is back then. Today, if I walked in there, I'd be like yo, let's get the fuck out of here. But back then. Yo, this is now.
Speaker 1:If you see that you're like these cats ain't serious, you know.
Speaker 2:But at the start, you're like this is seriously happening. Yo, I was like this is the dopest shit of all time and you can play guitar and all that, and I was just like yo this is gas. This is no good.
Speaker 1:I was taking guitar lessons a little bit this year, and last year I got to start getting back on that too. Yeah, it's always nice learning an instrument. It's tough though.
Speaker 2:Dude. That's why I got respect for people. Who makes master engineer produce the entire record? Like dividing your attention to be a master of all trades yeah, being that's a full like. I personally can't do that. I'm still focusing on being like a master writer. If I took time to produce, I know, I just know I couldn't juggle the two of them and that's why Kanye West and guys like that are fucking legends.
Speaker 1:They can do it all fucked, like I didn't even realize that Miss mixing, and at the start I didn't even realize like mixing and mastering were two different things. And then producing. So I'm like, oh, I'm going to make the beats and then they're like well, after you make them, someone's got to mix them to make them sound good. And after you mix them to make them sound good, then somebody masters them to make them sound good. And I'm like this over my fucking head, dude, I just like putting like samples together with drums and shit, you know.
Speaker 2:That's when it becomes. You realize that he kind of turns you off a little bit, that there's all this shit. I just want to make the shit, bro. I don't give a fuck about all that, right, and that's why I hired somebody to master those songs that I put out.
Speaker 1:I'm like I ain't fucking with this man.
Speaker 2:Of course I don't fuck with nothing, but I outsource everything but the fucking rocks. I'm not doing nothing else, the only thing I record, but I outsource the mix Right. So there was a time where I used to pull up to the studio and record there. But then I was like I'll buy your equipment, record in the, in the, in the comfort of my home, and do a thousand takes without being pressed about the time Right, and I'll bring it to your studio you can mix it. So that's the only yeah, it's easier that way though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got a couple. You know, I don't know if I was going to try and make like. I wasn't going to try and make like rap, but you know, I still do practice like freestyling and singing and shit, and I do still like write my rhymes, you know, but I'm always rapping a lo-fi and shit. You know, like my shit ain't hype.
Speaker 2:I remember the last song you showed me is pretty dope. It might have been a year and a half ago, yeah that's you know I uh, I tried putting some shit together.
Speaker 1:I like freestyling more than like writing an actual song, though you know like if you put on some like jazzy beats and shit, like I'll just spit. I don't really care about writing.
Speaker 2:Dude, this is where I get into like fights, because and this is nothing is I'm actually not that pressed, but like I no longer find joy in freestyling and that's just because of my mission. Like freestyling is a waste of time for someone who is main intention is to put out a record and like.
Speaker 1:I understand, I understand.
Speaker 2:But then I've got a bunch of friends, yeah, and I'm like I'm just here for my friends to be under. They think I'm like being like a buzzkill. I'm like, yo, this isn't fun. We could be actually producing a record putting the shit out, not just like we just did all that and nothing, that there's nothing, nothing to gain from it except pure enjoyment, which I would derive more enjoyment by actually releasing a finished product Totally. But the other reason I look at freestyling is something.
Speaker 1:Well, I just do it for fun. Like you said, it's for fun. I also like view it as like well, maybe I'll learn to rhyme things differently, just like for no fucking reason, or like a cadence, or like I don't know. Like I always feel like, even if you do freestyle, you're getting like better at shit without even realizing it. But for somebody who's on an MO, like you, to like put out the records and shit like that, like that takes way more planning than you just sitting around spitting for two hours, you know.
Speaker 2:And it's not just that, it's I, I've, I've freestyle. I can even say what a fact more than you know, forget God yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's, it's. It's weird for people to be like dude, this is fun. Dude, I've freestyled for thousands of hours since I was like 10. Right, this is no longer like fun. It was so much fun, I've done it more than you could even imagine. But then they're like nah, come on, let's do this shit. I'm like, bro, I spent an entire nice freestyle with the homies. Nice, yeah, so it's like. Kyp. Know your personnel, this thing that you derive enjoyment from you. You have to understand that. It no longer gives me pleasure, right, and the only reason is because I've done it that much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I feel that. So I mean that that's kind of how we I reached that point with like glue I'm loving too or, like you know, using flow, art and shit like that. I'm like dude, I literally walked around with my gloves for years. You know, I still glove under my table sometimes if I'm fidgeting and shit.
Speaker 1:But you know the shit ain't like like you said. It ain't like super fun anymore. I'm trying to direct my time towards actually producing like content in terms of like I want to write, you know. So yeah, I understand it's not. If you wanted to just be a fucking freestyler and have someone follow you around with a phone, you'd be. What's that guy's name?
Speaker 2:Harry Mack.
Speaker 1:I'll be fucking yeah and he makes the thing out of it. You know he's dope and he's bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's his. That's all he does. That's, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's not you, though. You're trying to do something different. That's why you know I don't know why the and he's a he's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2:That's it's nuts Best of ever heard, best of ever heard, without a doubt. You think, yeah, in the aspect of freestyle and making shit coherently, yeah, I would never freestyle with Harry Mack in front of people, because I know that you draw, take visual cues way better than me. But if we're talking about like, put on a, b and see who goes harder, I'll go and see an in battle and not even be scared that I'll come out on top. But he's really good at that. You know that chicken, the blue thing and the shit with the red, that and like yo, you got that?
Speaker 1:Yeah he's. He's crazy at that shit, for sure.
Speaker 2:But I'll just say some random shit on some slick shit Right Put on a instrumental that they ain't not, it's a wrap. So like without it.
Speaker 1:So you're saying, like the homies, like freestyling more than just like going and actually putting in work on the albums and shit, right, yeah, and it's annoying, but I still do it anyway, just because I'd be a bus killed to be like yo this is retarded.
Speaker 2:Actually I still do that anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean yeah, what are you going to do, though I mean, sometimes you got to do I do, sometimes you got to do things you're not like totally fond of, you know.
Speaker 2:But it would be dope if they came over to this side and, you know, put a little intention behind it and drop the right. But as I do, I jam with them just for the fuck of it. I derive no pleasure, no value comes from it, but I do it because we're homies. Right, Come over to this item. Drop that record for real.
Speaker 1:Didn't you say you're going to move to? Do you think that you're ever going to move out of Lansing for your, your job? And when I say your job or your dream, like rapping, you know yeah, I'm moving out of Lansing in 2025.
Speaker 2:There you go. Where are you going? No-transcript Yo, I'm actually not even gonna think about it, because at that point I'll have a lot of money saved to where I could just Be like yo, I'm out of here, you go. Nice, financially, I'm restricted now to I'm not a big planner. To I'm playing shit. The fact you make a plan with me More than 24 hours in advance, it's not Said yes, but it's first service not happening, right. I Will just be like yeah, fucking, I'm up. I feel that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got a. I got a plan for I Think it's gonna be another year. I had already told my mom, too, that I'm not gonna be staying at the bookkeeping company forever. I already told her that I'm gonna be a full-time writer, host and podcast host and public speaker. So she already knows this going into it because technically, I run the business with her, you know. Yeah, I just told her it's probably gonna be a year or two and then I'm gone.
Speaker 2:So You're in my position now. I used to use it as a crutch. Like yo, I don't want to leave my mom stranded and single-handed running this shit. We know they got it, but we also know that you're doing the majority of the work and that it will be more difficult without your right, but my, they would rather see us chase our dreams, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and, and I, I used to use a crush, though, like I can't right, I mean, and I was more worried because I got student loans and I got bills and shit and I'm like I got, you know it's. It's not a bad job, you know, and it's. You know it's with my mom, you know, lover to death and shit, like you said. You know kind of use it as a crutch, but there's only so much. It's. Yeah, it's comfortable, but you know I've reached a point now, just like you said, you know, 2025 is your year, wherever you're gonna fucking do it. You know, and I already know, that I'm gonna dip out and chase this dream. So right now, I just need to get a little nest egg to sit under before I do some shit like that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's funny is that Technically you can do whatever you want to do anywhere, but location is actually everything. The people you meet, the the funk suede of fucking air.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we'll actually be moving further from the city, so I don't know if we're gonna live in Illinois anymore. I need like more nature to be. You know, it's like where my creativity is. I derive a lot of it from Nature, peace and quiet and stuff. If I'm gonna like write, you know I don't mind going, I do. Yeah, yeah, we like camping and hiking. Yeah, yeah, boy. Ah, not anymore. My dad, my dad, hates the fact that I don't like fishing anymore. How the fuck you stop liking fish, bro, dude? My dad and my uncle go hard. They'll be out on the boat for like 10 hours. I'm like you got to take me in. This is Done, dude.
Speaker 2:Don't do, don't take me, please, yeah but that doesn't mean you dislike fishing, maybe with them, because they you're out there all day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you fish for five, three I mean, like when we went up for the fourth of July, I fish for like two hours. You know like I don't mind catching fish, you know, it's just like sometimes there's some other shit I could be doing, you know.
Speaker 2:Yo, and that that is actually the crazy thing about life Got your I live and die for fishing, and then you live and die for like any interest, and and then you could build a whole friend group around That'll. That'll, that'll make the point of cutting off right, not with ill will, but just like yo, you're too into that thing that I'm not into. I'm gonna this, right, actually, you will just like not associate it, right like yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I still got some homies like that that are like that. That I obviously still, like you know, check up on every once in a while. But, like you said, like, so sometimes you just go like that, you know.
Speaker 2:You got writer friend. They've become mad close with, now that you're here, an author.
Speaker 1:No, bro, I got. I got a few podcast friends that I hit on Instagram and shit I work cuz so you don't.
Speaker 2:You don't feel lonely like not having a bouncing board with people in the industry.
Speaker 1:Mmm. No, I well, I bounce ideas off of Lisa, I bounce ideas off of my brother, my you know, bounce ideas off of everybody in my life.
Speaker 2:Regardless if they're a writer or not, you know.
Speaker 1:Cuz they know, I mean I just Know, but the creator knows.
Speaker 1:I mean it's different with rap, though. You're like, if you, if you wraps a little different, because you're like, let me bounce these bars off of you and you don't understand rap at all, they'll just be like, yeah, that sounded really nice, you know, but they don't know what to say to that. You know, with, with, when I'm writing philosophy or like anything self-help like, and I try and bounce an idea off of someone in my life, they'll actually Cuz I'm trying to write something that's like a little like, you know it's philosophy or self-help, it's like kind of relevant. You know, if you're trying to bounce off like rhymes and raps and shit off of people that don't understand it, like, I understand where you're actually, I actually started doing that, though for the reason that you think it's different is the common consumer is who have obviously that's the attention.
Speaker 2:Okay so if the layperson doesn't like what the fuck I'm saying, there has to be a reason for it. That doesn't mean that it isn't technically dope what I'm doing, but they're like you know what? That just isn't aesthetically or sonically right. Yeah, and I Just recently started taking that in consideration Because, like, yeah, I want something that's like yo. Everyone thinks that's sick, even even, even the, even the ill-romb riders. So once you got the a okay from method man, you got the a okay from Joe smoke pre-med. Now you've got just universal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't think about it. Well, I did think about it that way, but you just said the reason why you think it would have been different. So did you just start doing this, like recently then?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like producers, I'll be like yo, if anywhere in the bar it sounds off, and this is someone who's never written a rhyme, right I'll. I'll be like alright, and then after I'll be like you know what they're right. I could take out a couple syllables there and it flow better. Right before I be oh, my way, or the highway, I'm like no, bro, let's, yeah, that's not how you like.
Speaker 1:Grow, though, or like you know. Art's got to change with you, and yeah, if you're too strict about some shit, then it's Like you said. It's not gonna be pleasing to everybody. You know, I'm not trying to write something that's only for a select few of really high brow, like you know, nose in the air, fucking snooty, patootie people, right.
Speaker 2:I was, I was a little.
Speaker 1:I was a little bit, especially when you're writing philosophy, because it's like I'm gonna write some fucking super intelligent dope shit, you know.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with that, though? This to seek the validation of those on the upper echelon.
Speaker 1:No, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's also like I'm trying to help more people than that.
Speaker 2:You know I'm so you dumb it sometimes, yeah, not all you could argue like not pure, you're like doing the doing it.
Speaker 1:Philosophy in itself a disservice by like Dominate if I was just gonna write a straight fucking philosophy book then I wouldn't give a shit, you know. But if you're right, so here's the problem. I actually like mix my philosophy with myself help all the time. Like the book I wrote is supposed to be a motivational, self-help philosophy book, you know. But I've had family members and other people say, you know, it was a little difficult to read at some points and I'm like I get it. You know, sometimes I get a little archaic or subjective, you know.
Speaker 2:In what way was it difficult to read? Because I I didn't find it difficult to read. Well, there there's not interesting, though, because that that's another sometimes it gets a little.
Speaker 1:You know you. You wrap you right. You know I get a little poetic. Sometimes I'd use work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so that's not.
Speaker 1:Everybody can read shit like that, you know. You know that's all right. I put the book out for me really so Always right, so but. I think that I was gonna say like dumb it down, like I wouldn't consider it dumbing it down for a self-help book or something, because you are trying to appeal to a Wider audience, right, you know. But if, like I said, if I'm gonna write some fucking shit for the upper echelon of Philosophy, like I'm gonna make it pretty difficult, then you know, I.
Speaker 2:Do see what you're saying. Like you set out the purpose of what you're trying to write and if you're, your goal is to be peer-edited by, like Socrates, it's not to help, it's to be like Profound, you know I, accessible, digestible.
Speaker 1:It's just a different. You know a different method and stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:That is why, like I'm a big fan of Charles Bukowski, right? Oh yeah, cuz he does you can write just like, without all that extra shit, but it's still profile, it's still like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see a lot of his quotes and and stuff. Do you, does he have like a book out?
Speaker 2:Oh, he's dead, but I've got all his books back, right.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say what would you recommend for somebody to read for the further? First Charles Bukowski book.
Speaker 2:I Like the, the post office. You can really you can't go wrong anywhere, really for sure. You know his. His writing is basically your life overindulgence and just like Having a good old time while trying to be a dope writer. All this shit is literally his life, but like told in like an ill-ass story format.
Speaker 1:All right, so you know, yeah, I mean, like I said, like some of that shit comes up on the algorithm for my Instagram, like his quotes and stuff, so I just haven't like dove into him, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Any from Detroit, from the D or.
Speaker 2:No, that's, that's. I'm thinking of Elmore Leonard Charles. I don't know where Charles is from, but yeah, you know. Yeah, all right. Yeah, I know I've gone way past your typical it was more than just catching up.
Speaker 1:It was a good conversation, Honestly yeah. Oh yeah, honestly, like I'm always down to like do more of these. You know, if you're ever willing to, I always have Recurring guests on my podcast, obviously you know. Yeah, I Gotta go cook for Lisa right now, so Sure yeah, what the fuck came where?
Speaker 2:I use in the record this because I need that. Is it a attachable?
Speaker 1:no, this is my phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's, and I, the guy who I did my first guest speaking with my, with his podcast, who who got me on his joint I Asked him the same fucking question because I was using a webcam and he goes I'm just using my phone, I'm like a fuck out here, all right, so there's an LH, that's got. Yeah, there's an app called Camo. Camo. It's an app for your phone and on your computer, hook it up with a with a cord but a bing-but-a-boom. There you go.
Speaker 2:So, but I could have downloaded that Riverside on my phone and still done it through that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could have did that too. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm over here 720p. You're in fucking a cave. That's nice.
Speaker 1:I think it records in 720, because I don't choose the 4k setting because it gets a little laggy then, you know. But Looks good, you know.
Speaker 2:No doubt, man Yo, it's a good time in a. I hope we make a good dinner, hey, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I think I'm gonna cook some steak tonight, so yeah. I appreciate you coming on Having a good ass conversation. Honestly. Next time you tore, me and my brother gonna be there for you. You already know what's good.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna get in spring baby, march, march and a let's fucking go man.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, and yeah, just give me a heads up whenever you come back into the shy. I'll try and make some. Yeah, I'll try and make a move to come out. We can shoot some some pool cuz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do that shit, yeah I appreciate it and I like how we didn't. We didn't miss a beat picked up like it was old days, just like that.
Speaker 1:I mean, we talked a lot. We talked a lot about, you know, some homies do this and that, or things change over time, man, but like you said, we, you know, we're still homies. I still consider you a good friend. I'm always checking up on you, man. I always want to see you good people succeed. That's the thing. Like was how yeah brother? I, guys, I love you the way we leave our upbeat acting content into the Poly us in U obvious.