Muncy: Sobriety, Rapping and Starving the Ego

Jon Cerone has Muncy, an independent hip-hop artist and rapper from Michigan, return to the podcast to give a few updates on his rap career, his physical wellness journey and thoughts about starving the ego and feeding the soul.

Jon also answers Muncy's questions about his book Parables: Musings From an Addict on the Journey Toward Wholeness!

Muncy's Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3BLw2xMrhb0lwCFrXNKZ6w?si=-6Fj01GfSiCDcU817jFKuQ

Muncy's LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/Muncyraps?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=96675aa1-55e0-4965-9f2a-5256d6be81d1

Follow Muncy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muncyraps/

Transcript

Jon: 0:08

Yo yo, welcome back to the Feel Free Podcast, the only podcast that'll tell you to chase your dreams and call you. I don't know your bullshit, myself included. Got a good episode today. Got my buddy Muncy back on some updates on his rap career, and also we're talking sobriety recovery, chasing our dreams and all that other good stuff. Stay tuned though, cuz I got my buddy Todd Renbaum from the Bunny Hugs podcast coming on in a couple weeks. Definitely don't want to miss that episode. I got a couple other guests planned too, but I'm gonna finalize some days before I drop some of their names out here. So without further ado, stay tuned for the episode. All right, cool. So do you want to introduce yourself for the listeners who didn't have the opportunity to listen to your first episode?

Muncy: 1:00

Sure. Uh, Muncy. I am a mc from Michigan, not from Detroit, from Commerce, but, uh, I've done a lot of shows out there. Everything seems to happen in the Detroit area, I suppose. Um, I don't claim Detroit though. I'm in recovery and I rap about what I've experienced in my life, uh, what I hope to experience, what inspires me, just sometimes pulling from my imagination. Uh, I love to rap. I'm a rapper's rapper. I love, uh, the art form, you know, um, metaphors, similes analogies. Just rap. Man. I really love it. I love the art form. I love the culture, and it's, uh, it's been my life's work. You know, I, up to this point, it's the only thing I've, I've done in my life that I never. Wanted to stop doing. So that's, that's a little bit about, uh, who I am and what I love to do. So, uh, I hope you guys, uh, enjoy this conversation and check out some of my

Jon: 2:10

music. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna be dropping links to all your music and all your socials. And all the posts too. Uh, I got a lot of good feedback. Everyone loved the, the previous episode we did. So Muni 2.0 is gonna be, uh, double the awesome, you know. Yeah. I like, I like the, the sober activist part about it too, because in a, in an industry that is heavily saturated with party culture, you know, you're, you're, you're definitely, uh, a beacon for those out there that might listen to music for different reasons other than partying. And I respect it entirely cuz it's, it's not easy to do it. So. Mm.

Muncy: 2:50

Yeah. Thanks man. Yeah, absolutely.

Jon: 2:53

And like, uh, it's a common place for all of it. Of course. I mean, like you still got songs that get hype and, you know, people can party to anything, but it's mostly like, uh, you know, the substance

Muncy: 3:04

usage, the glorifying and stuff that Right. Happens in mainstream songs. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Jon: 3:10

It's a bummer. Yeah, it's a bummer. Totally. So, I, I wanted to have you back on, there's been a lot of big moves that you've been making the last couple months. I said I was gonna get you back on even after the first time. Uh, there's a couple things that we wanted to talk about today. Obviously everyone's here to feel free and we're here to inspire people to chase their dreams, get healthy and just love life to the fullest. However, they're gonna do that. I hope we inspire them to do it in any way, shape, or form. First thing I wanted to talk about, you had mentioned last time you were on here, That you, you won some sort of competition, uh, to go down to Florida. Um, what was that all about? Was that just like a Oh,

Muncy: 3:52

in a sense, yeah, we could touch on that. I, uh, I won a partial scholarship to, uh, go to this conference in Florida with, uh, musicians and, uh, you know, individuals from different aspects of the industry, uh, working in the sync world, which is, you know, mu getting music placed in TV and film. So there's, you know, sync advertisers and sync agents, there's, uh, producers there. There's, um, you know, big machine was there, record label agents, and, uh, a lot of talent scouts and a lot of talent and really a lot of talent was what I noticed the most. You know, a lot of people there who were also chasing their dreams, you know, like-minded individuals who. Had a passion and drive for music, obviously, if they're willing to travel across the country for it, you know, um, that there, there was a special energy in the air there for sure. You know? Um, so I got to perform while I was down there. I got to see some other amazing performances. And it was, it was really humbling, man, because, uh, well, I think I did a great job, uh, with my performance. So did everyone else. And it's, it's wild, like being in the presence of so much greatness, you know, uh, everyone is just skilled in their own unique way and they have a gift that they're sharing with the world that no one else has. You know, at least that's what I saw there. And I'm not saying that's true for everyone that tries to be a musician, but, uh, a lot of these individuals that I saw there, they really have something, you know? And it was, it was cool to see that. And it was motivating, it was inspiring and it was, uh, It was an experience, you know? So I was grateful for that and to meet the people I got to meet. And, uh, it just really, uh, you know, lifted me up. Lifted me up, and uh, got me to keep, keep pushing at a time where maybe I was kind of like half-ass in it, you know? I was like halfway in, halfway out. Like never all the way out. But you go through these phases where you're not given like everything, you got into what you love, because whatever's like challenges life is putting in front of you can ki these roadblocks and kind of like hold you up and then something happens that just sets you on fire again. You know? And we all need that. And whether that means traveling halfway across the country, uh, or whether it means taking a walk, you know, uh, whatever that looks like. I think we all need those resets sometimes. And that's, that's what this was for me, was, was a big reset, reminded me, uh, how much I love this, how much. How hard it is, you know, really how, how hard it is to do this, but how much I love it and how much I want to do this, and how, how capable I am of doing it, you know? Right. You, uh, music that is, yeah, yeah. Speaking, speaking music. Yeah. Ass like a profession. I

Jon: 6:54

mean, it's, it's, uh, a difficult hobby and profession to do, you know, not a lot of people do it, and I think to be surrounded by, not even just creativity, but positivity, you know, all these people. Meeting up to, to do something that isn't done a lot. You know, I, I think that's, like you said, that recharge is necessary. You know, we go through these moments where half in and half out, but you met a lot of people that did a lot of amazing things there and it kind of revitalized you in order to get back on your horse, you know, and keep at it. Now did this play into your new album coming out or was that mostly done? Did this help you get

Muncy: 7:34

through to that? It was mostly written, uh, when I went out there, actually, one of the songs from the album is what I submitted for my, for my entry to be considered for the scholarship. And they were like feeling it, you know, and that was the g o d song, gift of Desperation, recovery inspired, spiritual based song. And it was originally intended to be the title track for the album. I've now, I've since then changed what the album is gonna be called, but that is still the first track I released off of the album. And the, there is a cohesive, like, kind of gradual, um, sound with the album. Every song kind of leads into the next, uh, or at least has a similar vibe, you know? Right. Taps into those, taps into the, the depth, so to

Jon: 8:25

say. So, so you originally were going to name the album Gift of Desperation and obviously Correct. You know, if you write that out, it's, it's g o d. So is, are you, are your, is this mostly gonna be like a spiritual album then? I mean, obviously you talk about like, you know, your feelings with, with life and everything. Is there a more specific message that you're trying to convey with that?

Muncy: 8:48

Well, I wanna spread hope for Sure. And I, but I, I don't wanna shy away from, uh, the broken aspects either. So it's got this really melancholic feel to it with a lot of the songs, but also this, this uplifting element to, so it's not like sad boy shit, you know what I mean? It's like, it's like motivating because I feel like there's a lot of that in today's hiphop. And uh, it's, so, it's got that element, but it's like, what are we doing about this? You know? Like, this is what's going on. This is what we can do. I feel like it's an optimistic approach to life is, uh, what I'm sharing in this, this music. And it's not all super, uh, oh, I, I don't know. I don't wanna say it's not all super deep, but like, there, there are songs once we get to the other side of the, the project that are a little bit more, um, I don't know where I let loose a bit more. And, you know, the, the songs I've been releasing are very thought provoking and, uh, while all the songs have that, I think toward the other side, uh, there's just a different energy, I guess. There's a very runaround way of just saying a different energy. It's a gradual shift, I suppose, you know, from like the darker side to a brighter, more aggressive, confident side, you know. So

Jon: 10:13

what is giving you this new change in energy now, this positive thing a lot of your music has, has been very thought, is very thought provoking, obviously. But from what you've told me and, and what I've heard on the singles, there's a different energy to this now, is there a reason why you're a little more. I don't know, positive why you have these answers and this confidence in the last six to nine months or however long you've been working on this album compared to your other ones, why is this one going to be different than the rest?

10:47

Hmm.

Muncy: 10:47

Great question. Uh, one, I think I've went through a lot and real in realizing that, realizing why I make music, you know, there's, uh, comes a point in time where like you don't receive the, the, uh, where, where I didn't receive the accolades or the validation that would ever be enough for me to be like, oh yeah, this is sick. Like, I'm gonna keep doing this for that reason or whatever. Like, it's never, I've never, I mean, of course Val, like validation feels good. That's something I certainly struggle with, you know, um, is like detaching from that. Um, and I want the accolades, I want, I want the plaques, I want, I want the numbers, but none, none of it will ever f. At least to this point in my life, none of it has ever felt like enough to really fuel me. So just, uh, being humbled by that and coming back to a place of like, why I started doing this. And it was just tapping into like what's inside of me at any given time, like what I'm feeling, what I'm going through, um, at that time. And just like, like letting it all out, you know, on the song. And that's, that's what music has always been. So that's what my creative process has always been to the, to the very core, you know? And if it's not that, it's not, it's not me to be honest. So I'm sometimes that means, uh, happy. Sometimes it doesn't. I always say one day I'll make happy music. Um, it hasn't happened yet. Maybe I need to be like fully happy first, but I don't know, I've been like pretty happy or whatever, uh, or content I suppose. Um, but, and maybe that's showing in my music. I'm not sure. But I think that the world needs positivity too. Like we need, we need light, we need hope. Uh, because there's just this, we're just living in crazy times, man. And, uh, we don't have anyone really stand like, uh, what do we really stand for? You know? I think it's important to ask ourselves again and again cause it might change, but like, what do I stand for today? I hope that my music represents that. You know, and I hope when people listen, they can see that and maybe ask themselves, what, what do I stand for? You know? Uh, right.

Jon: 12:58

I, I, I write it a lot in some of my journals, but I, the world needs more heroes in my opinion. Mm. Um, people that are going to stand up, like you said that cuz we do live in, I'd say troubling times, honestly, you know, you know, aside from just instant gratification, addiction, you know, media being shoved down everybody's throats all the time, you know, wellnesses. The wellbeing of the human race is at this, this paradigm shift where we have to figure it out, you know, and nobody really knows how. So to have people like you and I who wanna write about it for the sake of, damn, I, I hope like this helps somebody, you know, first I'm gonna help myself and I hope that by helping myself, my journey can inspire somebody else to help themselves. You know, cuz most of my heroes are all fictional, uh, just from all the anime I watch and stuff. But I, I'd like to see a lot more people standing up for what is right, you know? And you know, like I said at the start of the whole thing, the whole being sober and being a rapper is very inspirational too. And yeah, and being proud of being sober too, cuz I've met at like a couple sober people who are not so happy about being So, I, I, I'd like to say, I'd like to say that you definitely give off the energy that you're, that you're happy to be here and you're happy to be in control. You know, I'd like to say that. I'd like to think that I'm, I'm there as well, you know, so that's,

Muncy: 14:30

yeah, absolutely, man. Um, I think definitely happy to be in control, but that's a double-edged sword too, because like, I think sometimes the, the very core of my problem is wanting to be in control and not letting go, you know? But I'm more in control now of my life than I ever was when I was, uh, in active addiction. So there's that, right? You know, I guess I'm focused now, like what, what I can control, right? Like, uh, the Serenity Prayer or whatever. Um, you know, uh, accept the things I cannot change. Courage to change the things I can like, like what is in my control, what is in my power to. And what things do I need to just like set aside? You know what, like some, some things are not your acts, you know? It's just like, let it be. There's so much in our control, in our scope of reality that we can shape. Uh, but I have a tendency to focus on things that aren't,

Jon: 15:23

that aren't in your control. Yeah, for sure. Or, or things I know that aren't in my control, but I, I think I have the solutions in order to make them in my control. So it's, it's ridiculous. Um, so I understand completely. Uh, I, I thought it was interesting when you, you were talking about like letting go in this whole, I've actually been reading a little bit of Daoism again. I studied Eastern philosophy for a little bit at college. Uh, I will sick, I will be getting into Tai Chi classes hopefully in the next couple weeks. So I'm looking Ooh, yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

Muncy: 15:59

No. So a couple questions. Da Tai Chi is, isn't that like intentionally like putting yourself through pain to like in endure more? Uh, is that what Tai or is that like a That's chi. That's chi. Okay. So Tai chi is martial arts. Tai

Jon: 16:11

chi is a form of martial arts. It's actually, um, okay. Uh, described as moving meditation, so, Ooh. Nice. Have you ever seen Avatar the last Airbender, the old Nickelodeon show?

Muncy: 16:23

Mm, I've been told to watch it and I haven't delved into the, uh, the anime

Jon: 16:28

realm yet. Really? Well, really good show. Wouldn't consider it an anime. It's obviously still a kid show. Uh, won a lot of awards for having. Adult themes and questions in a, in a children's show, you know, so I highly recommend it. And Okay. One of the forms of, um, element bending, so it's a show kind of like magic, the water benders that, um, kind of use water as magic. They use a form of, they're based on Tai Chi, so all of their movements Nice. Are like martial arts, martial arts based. And I've just been doing like research and I, I really wanted to get a another side to my physical wellness other than just basketball and lifting. Um, something to help with my flexibility. Yeah, sure. And I makes sense. I wanted to talk more about that after I had asked you about your physical wellness journey. So one of the, the points I was going to make about this new album, new Energy, it's positive, you got answers, you got confidence. Does this have anything to do with taking your physical wellness journey seriously in the last half a year or year?

Muncy: 17:32

I would say it has to man. Uh, well, and here's why, because. Like I said about my process, it's when I'm feeling, when I get that creative spark, right, and I'm feeling like, uh, I wanna let out what's inside of me, you know, well, what's inside of me is different based on what I'm doing in my life. So, you know, if I'm just on bullshit all the time, I'm not really gonna have a whole lot of, uh, inspiration or profound words to, uh, drop on the mic, you know? And, uh, the more in my life that I'm doing, which I, I what I consider to be profound, the more profound my, my words and my music will be. And like anything that I do anything in like the, the social realm or the creative realm, uh, my impact will be more profound based on what I'm doing when no one's watching, you know, ah, uh, when it's just me. And I like those moments where you have like a split, you know, s. Split second decision. Sometimes you get to do something. I like how, uh, our, our good friend Brandon, uh, calls it like his higher self or his lower self. Right. You know, um, which one is like running the show at which time, I think the more that we can do things from, uh, our higher self, the, the more that radiates, you know, in the world around us and like also comes back, you know? And so I'm not saying I do it perfectly, but I, I do, I am happy with the progress I've made. In these past, really the past year, I feel much more content, much happier now than I was, uh, probably a year ago. You know, I went through these huge ups and downs in recovery. Um, people talk about recovery being like this, like straight line, right? Some people are like, oh yeah, on drugs. I was like, up and down and like, uh, I'm like that now, like up and down maybe with drugs and alcohol. I was like, you know what I mean? Like the ups and downs were, were too, too extreme, uh, dramatic. Yeah. But, but I still, I still love those and those are what, to me, give life meaning. And I don't wanna be just like a straight line all the time, but I also don't want to be, uh, a basket case, you know? So I still go through these ups and downs. I'm not just like, happy, joyous, and free all of the time. But I, I suppose what I've experienced in the past year would be contributing to, uh, to the music, you know, And to what I'm writing and, uh, this, you know, the new approach of doing things I don't always wanna do, you know, and, and the consistency, like you said, with certain things. Uh, fitness being one of them, I don't know, just like callouses your mind a little bit, you know? And, uh, you never know when you're gonna get that return on investment of like, that's, that's you investing, right? Like, you do these things. You don't see an immediate return. You have no idea what it's, what it's for. You just, you have this intuition that it's, it's going to be good and it's gonna help you, but you're exhausted from it. You're tired. It kills your motivation to do other things because you're putting energy into things that you're not getting a return on right away. And then when it comes, it comes when you least expect it, you know? And then you start to see it happen in your life. Like now you got your office space, you got your new apartment. Like you start to see these things happen and you're like, oh, this is because like, I started doing something like way back at this time, and now it's like starting to pay off. So if I keep. That mindset and know that I can do something today and I might not see anything for it for two years, five years, 10 years, or it could be in two months. Um, I guess doing something and not expecting, uh, what you might receive has a, has a power to it. And I try to practice that

Jon: 21:16

and just doing it solely just to do it almost because you, well, you, you hope to

Muncy: 21:20

get something back. Right, right. But, um, that you can't, like, you can't like wait for that and be like, oh, like, I'm not getting anything for this. I'm just gonna give up. You know, if I did that, I would've stopped making music like so long ago. Of course, I would've, you know, like, I, I would've stopped working out because like, your body doesn't change in a day, you know? And not to say like, I work out the feel good, right. To feel free. Uh, but not, but like, I also wanna look good or whatever, you know, like, I think everyone does. So, um, but that can't be the sole motivator, right? Because if it is, you're gonna. You're gonna get frustrated and you're gonna give up, or you're just gonna be like, very vain and, um, it's gonna like run the show. Your ego's gonna run the show, you know?

Jon: 22:02

And that's a dangerous thing. Pride. It is. I, I'd like to think, you know, I was looking up definitions of, of, uh, the ego. Um, but before I actually get into starving the ego, like what we, we, we want to do, uh, one of your reels, or it was a reel for one of your songs that I saw on Instagram, and one of your bars had mentioned that you thought that all your problems were going to be solved when you got sober. Right. Or like, getting sober and like, I thought things, oh yeah. I thought things were gonna get easier. Right. And I thought the same thing. And it, and it comes back to this whole like, you know, return on the things we're doing and it get, it gets discouraging when you don't see a return on your sobriety immediately. Right? You're like, well, I've done good for these three to six months. Why isn't my life completely fixed? Right. And it's like, well, you spent the last eight years fucking your life up, so how do you, how are you gonna fix it in three to six months? You know? And then even after a year, and I'm on my second year sober and I'm still having these, not like doubts, but just this unease, I'm like, damn. Like I got two years of hard sobriety work. Like, why am I still struggling with these problems that I thought at the start of my recovery process? I'm like, I'm gonna have this shit figured out, you know? And I still don't. Right, because like you said, it's not linear. It's these frigging ups and downs all the time. We get discouraged. So when I saw that reel you put on Instagram, I'm like, fuck. I totally thought I was gonna have it all figured out just by getting sober. And here I am still learning, you know?

Muncy: 23:44

Mm. Yeah. So the Four Walls song, uh, thought when I got sober, everything would come together, but I'm starting to think when it come together, it's like never terrified what's inside of me. Paralyzing anxiety, barely fine, but I try to be rarely fond in the time to see. So, yeah. Yeah. That is, uh, yeah, man, I guess it's just, we didn't even know how fucked up we were when we were in active addiction. We didn't know we really needed to change. I mean, maybe eventually. Eventually, right? We were like, oh, this isn't, like, this isn't like the best me. Like I could, I could be doing something different, but Right. You don't see, like, things appear as problems now, like hills, we have to climb that. We didn't even see the hills before. You know, so it's like walking through life with blinders on, right? Like, you don't even know what needs to happen, so it doesn't feel like weight on your shoulders, cuz you can just like pick up the bottle or like, you know, whatever, whatever your vice is, you can like go to that and it becomes this instinctual thing and you do it before even noticing what, what's going on up here. You know? Uh, at least that was true for me and it, um, even aside from drugs and alcohol, it can appear today in behaviors and stuff and like I have to, I, you know, I catch it or whatever, but sometimes it's after the fact and I guess that's how people relapse. Right? Right. You know? Um, but for me it's just like, I don't know why, for me it's been, it's just like a hard no. Like I, I know people say like, once an addict, always an addict. And I believe that. I have no shame in identifying as an addict. I do feel like that is, that is who I am. It's, it's part of my, my makeup, but I don't. Where was I going with this? Uh, I don't, uh, I don't have any problem identifying as an addict, but, uh, gotta help me out here where, uh, where was I?

Jon: 25:34

Um, uh, we were talking about having it all figured out because we got sober, I think, but that was the study, so

Muncy: 25:44

I don't even know, but we're here now. I think I got my point across. I was probably just trying to really zero in hammer it home. That's been happening lately. Sometimes I'll just blank.

Jon: 25:55

Uh, you know, I, I think we just think too fast is the thing. I know. I think I'll chalk it up to that. I I think you got it. I think you got it through to'em though. Um, so we thought that all this problems were gonna be solved with, uh, sobriety and it actually brought different problems that we needed to solve and the, these habits that we were rewiring ourselves to do. In our struggles right now. You catch yourself, you said, when you're doing a behavior that you know is probably gonna lead to, uh, a negative outcome. Right. Or once an addict always an addict type of thing. And I believe that too. Hmm. You know, I

Muncy: 26:37

still catch my myself. That's where I was gonna go. Let me, let me just interrupt you real quick. I'm sorry. Uh, don't lose your train of thought is, um, yeah. I don't feel like I'm gonna use or anything. Like, that's not, like, I'm not like worried about a relapse, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's just what I was gonna spit out is, uh, for me, it like shows up in other ways, but I don't ever have that like, concern that that's gonna happen. And I think maybe a lot of people do. I don't know why. I don't know why I don't, you know, I feel like I have a lot to live for or whatever, but

Jon: 27:04

that's it. I mean, there's just like a couple things. I, I'm right there with you. There's a couple things that I know I could never do again. Like, I can't drink. It's just out of the question, you know, like, I can't do cocaine. Mm-hmm. I can't smoke weed. Mm-hmm. I can't do like, mind altering substances. I just can't, you know, like, I won't, I don't need to. And like, enjoy it,

Muncy: 27:24

right? Yeah. You can't, you don't Like we, we don't get to enjoy it anymore. No, we

Jon: 27:28

don't. Like, I, I ruined that for myself, you know, cuz I took, you know, and, and before I was getting sober it was funny because people always threw the whole like, well, why don't you just moderate it? And I'm like, I hate that word, you know, or just hate that. I don't understand

Muncy: 27:44

that word. I do nothing in moderation. I

Jon: 27:46

know it. There's no, like nothing, there's no throttle for me, it's, it, it was all or nothing. So the same pleasure that people get from using things. I'm not saying that I don't have that pleasure from using it was just, I had rewired my, my pain. To always rear its head. When I used no matter what, no matter what substance I did that was altering my, my mind or my body, it, it was always connected to my shame and my pain.

Muncy: 28:15

Joy overrides the pleasure. Like you feel good like Yep. In a chemical sense. Yep. But that spiritual aspect of it is like override like your piece of shit. Yes. Like that's what like happens in my head,

Jon: 28:28

you know? And it was funny cuz I had uh, my friend Jackie on a couple weeks ago and we were talking after the podcast and we were talking about this and she goes, yeah, I know when you were like trying to get sober. Those like the six months before I like tried to get sober. She could tell every day when I would come to hang out if I had broken my day counter or not, because I would walk into the whatever room my homies were chilling in and she could just like see it on my face like, I was just so ashamed, you know, like there was no pleasure for me at that point. It was all, I was just disappointed in myself, you know? So there was no, I had to rewire myself in order to love life without all that pain. You know? Like the pain's still there. It'll always be there. And it gives you and I, as far as I think, inspiration to continue to write and to continue to live like this, you know, we just don't need to get fucked up in order to do it.

Muncy: 29:22

Yeah, it's definitely the road less travel than it, it is harder sometimes, like tapping into what's inside of you. Like you don't have that qu that like shortcut, right? No. Um, and that's why, I don't know, I think it's a myth that people say when you, like people that get sober, clean, their, like art falls through the cracks. I, I think it's obviously not true, but I think I understand where it comes from cuz it, it's easier to give up and it's easier to just be like, wow, like maybe I don't got it anymore. Like, I'm sure people have those thoughts and they just give in to them. And their art changes. I think it happens

Jon: 29:54

whenever they don't change how they approach art. Mm-hmm. You know, they, they give up. You know, like at the start of it, like, I didn't feel creative at all in my recovery. I'm like, fuck, I've been writing, oh dude, for sure. I've been writing about being a piece of shit for eight years. How am I supposed to write about being positive now? Like, I had no fucking idea. You know? And to any artist who dealt with, like you said, they, they get sober and their art changes, you know, or they think it gets worse. It's like you just have to approach it differently, you know? And it's not easy. Mm-hmm. You know, it, it took a while. I'm almost four years sober and watching my art change in these last four years has been, uh, I'm so grateful for it. It's such a beautiful thing, you know?

Muncy: 30:39

Yeah, definitely. And you've changed, right? So I think that's part of it too, is maybe like, People don't change in the way that, uh, would allow their art to just blossom, you know, to change with them, um, upon like putting down the substances and the, you know Right. Change, changing the behaviors and stuff.

Jon: 30:57

Right. And before we still get onto that next topic, that the book that you read and the book that I wrote was actually the, is actually like, what Ha Yeah. There we go. Parables, yeah. Is actually my writing that had happened during that entire process that we just talked about. Hmm. The whole not being able to write, being creative, writing about all this stuff. It, it, those writings spanned over a course of probably like five years, I think, before I compiled it all into that book. So there's a different John in each one of those pages. I'd like to, I'd like to thank

Muncy: 31:37

Yeah, absolutely man. Love that. It's, uh, really, really good dude. Well, now that we're talking about the book, I have some, some highlights, dude. Um, here's one. The purpose of life is to make the best of what you have. I'm no longer a victim of my addictions. They're now a strength, not a weakness. And this goes back to like the people you mentioned who are like sober, but like, don't wanna be sober. They don't like, think it's not cool or something like, I think, like embrace it, bro. Like this is, dude, this is a, a power and a strength. This is a source of power that not everyone has, right? And people recognize it as a weakness. And I've, I'm really grateful that shift happened in me where I, I recognize it as a strength. And, um, I, I guess there's still like the, maybe it's the, um, The side of me that cares about like image and reputation that maybe I'm like, I pump the brake sometimes on, like sharing as much as I intuitively want to about recovery and stuff. Like, like the nitty gritty, the details and stuff about like, maybe not everyone needs to know that maybe there's discretion there. And that's something I'm still working through, you know, like how transparent can I be with the world who some, some of you won't understand me, you know? Um, and maybe that's not my business who understands me and who doesn't. Maybe I just need to like lay it all out, you know? And, uh, that's kind of where I'm at. And, and so it's, it's been a conflict and ongoing conflict in me. And so that line just really spoke to me because, um, I know it's a strength, but I know not everyone else sees it that way. So I'm like hesitant on like, you know what I mean? Like how I approach it. Of course. Uh, As a, as a like an artist or whatever. Yeah. Um, public figure, I don't know.

Jon: 33:26

But you, you realize that so, so, so deep down you do believe it's a strength even if you're gonna I do for sure. Yeah. And, and even if I, you know, I'm still coming to terms with the whole public figure thing and Lane it all bare for me to lay it all Bear. I had to write a book about it. And I, I talked a little bit about it on my podcast. I actually spoke on a podcast, uh, the Bunny Hugs and Mental Health podcast, and he asked me some very, um, personal questions. Like, my friends and family know what, what happened when I went through my psychosis between the ages of 19 and 21 from my drugs and stuff. Like, people who know me know that, but now it's like on the internet for people, you know, or like how you said you pumped the brakes when you, you know, am I supposed to share this or do, do people think like, It's not supposed to be a strength. And I just realized, man, if I just lay it all bare out there, I feel like I'm gonna be helping people more than they're gonna be judging me. You know, dude.

Muncy: 34:30

Hmm. That hits home, man. Cuz you're doing, you're doing the work, bro. You're doing the work. And, uh, it's like, who gives a fuck? You know? Right. At that point, like, if someone doesn't like it, someone doesn't like me. Like my principles are in line with, like, I'm, my actions are in line with my principles, right? So what could I, what wrong could I do? Right. And I mean, that's what Brandon

Jon: 34:50

says too. Of course. And I think you're, you're right there too. It's like we're, we're literally doing things in order to help people. So anybody who's really going to judge us in a negative way for that are like, it's just baseless. It's like, why don't, you're, you're being a hater, you know? And I don't call people haters, you know, maybe sometimes I do, but they be, they're fucking hating right now. You know, like, shit, it, it's crazy when you're,

Muncy: 35:15

yeah. That's, uh, It's bound to happen, right? Uh, right. Like it's bound to happen. The more, the more you put out to, the more you put yourself out to the world. Um, I think something, uh, we will have to get familiar with is like, how do we still lead, lead with, uh, love and, uh, Lori, uh, my fiance's been helping me with this too. Like, navigate when someone does really like, throw a low blow at you, like in the public space, someone drops a comment that just like, they're really trying to get under your skin. Like, wow. Like, like, you need to do this different. Like, you, you're, you suck. Maybe if you tried this, you'd be better. And like, how to like, not take, internalize that, but also like, not be passive and like, how do you respond to hate in the world? Um, in an assertive way that's like assertive, but loving. Like, like, hey. Yeah. Like it's, it's, you know, like, what, what would you say? And, you know, I mean, To turn it around so that person, cuz you know what they're going, like, what they're experiencing when they say something like that. Right. If someone is hating you, like there's something going on, like something you said like, like spoke to them somewhere, they're not willing to like look at yet. Yeah. Or whatever. And so it's really never something that's going on with you. Right. You

Jon: 36:30

know, uh, in those instances it's usually like, you can either try and be the nicest person possible and then say thank you at the end. Or the other option is to troll or the other option is to troll them and make a joke out of it. You know, because you

Muncy: 36:43

obviously Right. But then that leaves them, that leaves them reinforces them feeling like, oh, fuck you. You know? Whereas like, if can, can you say something to actually like win them over, I guess, and, and you can't win everyone over, but versus just like leaving it alone and letting people say what they want about you. I guess it's situational, it's tough

Jon: 37:00

online. Right. Would you agree? It's tough online. That's the, that's the problem because we're, we're putting words out there without any, uh, Mm, any emotion, any, uh, behavior, you know, anything. It's just like words. And we're supposed to try and read emotion. So everything gets, you know, all discombobulated in our understanding of each other. So I haven't had to deal with too many haters on the public server for, for what I'm doing right now, yet I can, I can imagine that once this gets out there though, like people are gonna start taking some of the statements I've made in my earlier episodes and paint me as a, as a heathen, which is all right. You know, it's, it's whatever. I'm still just gonna keep doing this, you know, fuck it,

Muncy: 37:45

right? Keep going. Always, no matter what anyone says, right? There's another line in your book. Um, I'm, so, my guilt is spawned from shame. I'm so ashamed of my actions that I feel I need to do what people ask of me, even if it costs me my free time. I feel overwhelmed, which keeps me from relaxing, but that isn't fair to me. I'll run myself into the ground trying to please everyone. Um, that spoke to me too. Uh, I guess it's like the people pleasing nature of maybe like, being an addict, like reinforces it, right? Like you wanna be like you're good person, you wanna take care of people, and even at your own expense, e even in like the wellness journey, like, you know, um, because you know that giving has, like, giving, like feeds a soul, right? But it's gotta be a balance. And I just don't think a whole lot about it. You know, if something comes up and people ask me or something seems to be like, what it, what needs to happen? I'll just like do it. And then, right. Think about it later. I don't know what I'm saying. Uh, well, I do, I do, do you know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. It's, I mean, you wrote it, so, yeah.

Jon: 38:56

See, I've had, I've almost felt ashamed. I, I felt ashamed because I became an addict and I felt that it was a very selfish endeavor of me to put all of my time and money into getting fucked up. Right. And even though everybody, everybody who stayed by my side through it, who love and care for me. So I felt that I did them dirty by fucking my life up when they believed that I could live a good life. So as I'm going through my sobriety and stuff, when people ask me for things or ask me to do things like favors and stuff like that, I almost felt obligated to say yes or hanging out with people, friends and family. I felt obligated because I'm like, these people wanted to hang out with me during the times when I was fucking around. So I owe it to them almost. Mm-hmm. You know, to spend this time with them.

Muncy: 39:45

Yeah. There's this like, Yeah, for sure. And then there's like this deep seated thing for me too that like if, if I say yes, I'm like a better person. And if I say no, then it makes me, you know what I mean? There's like, I know that's not real, it's not valid, right? But, It's what, it's what I feel at those times. It's like, Ooh, I'm letting someone down. Like, and then like, you feel like you're letting someone down and it reinforces like all the shame you felt in your entire life of being an addict. That's right. And letting people down. And it's like, just for saying like, no, you don't wanna, you know, go to Starbucks today. Or like, no, you, you don't wanna go bowling or whatever it is. I don't know, but I don't go bowling, but I do go to Starbucks. But you get what I'm saying. Right, right,

Jon: 40:23

right. So I actually had, uh, um, a stress and burnout coach on the podcast a couple weeks ago, and we talked a little bit about the art of saying no and why that that's good for you, you know, cuz otherwise, like we said, you're gonna lead to burnout. You're gonna just get fucking tired. Saying yes to everything, saying yes to helping everyone. And even like maybe working yourself too ragged if you literally say yes to filling your time completely. Then how the fuck are you supposed to relax? You know? So sometimes I just gotta say, yeah, I get that. Yeah,

Muncy: 40:55

sometimes you That's true. I think it's a slippery slope, because like, then you get, like, you don't wanna get in the habit of saying no either, because then you're not living anymore. It's like, yeah, like, then am I just saying no to everything? Because I've been in that space right forward too, and it's like, wait, what do I, what do I actually want to do? Right?

Jon: 41:12

Like, wait, am I just like a fucking loaf of bread on the couch right now? I've literally said no to everything. So, yeah, it's a, it's, it's all about balance. Fuck, you know? Um,

Muncy: 41:24

yeah, balance. It's important. Did you

Jon: 41:26

have anything else that highlighted or, uh,

Muncy: 41:29

I do. It's, uh, sky like, um, yeah, the vicious cycle of addiction led to the deterioration of my convictions. Um, wow, dude. Yeah. So, holy shit. Because being a, um, Stimulants being my addiction, right? It's the same here. Stimulants. I think it whatever someone's drug of choice or drug of no choices. It maybe, I know it's true for me that it allowed me to tap into a, like my creative process and like what I actually want to, like, the messages I wanna convey and what I wanna get across. So clearly, you know, with so, so much clarity and, uh, but so I would write it and I would be able to write it like what I thought was so well, or whatever. It felt like so clear to me, but then I couldn't, like, I couldn't say it right? Like, I couldn't, I had no conviction, like as a rapper, I, I couldn't say it with conviction. Like, like maybe I just didn't feel it anymore after I wrote it, right? Like, I wrote it and then it was out there and I couldn't like tap back into that. Um, weird dude. Like, yeah, like you, you feel something so strongly. And then it's just like gone like that when, ah, I don't know. There's something about that like. Saying things and doing things with conviction that sobriety has, has given me, given us back. Um, that I don't know if I ever had, I certainly didn't have it in addiction. Um, or I certainly lost, like, I remember losing it like gradually, like more and more like I would always write, I would always write in the, I wouldn't put anything out. I, and like, I wouldn't execute, I wouldn't execute anything. I would just write and write and write and get my feelings out. It was really, uh, yeah. Pathetic, dude. Honestly,

Jon: 43:14

it, it, it was a phase, you know, you know, like we can always look back and say how pathetic we were back then, you know, which, which we were. But sobriety has given us that, that conviction, that ability to take all those things that we've written and actually live it, you know, I'm executing like the way that I, I knew from the start I was supposed to be living this way even before I started using, you know, even in high school when. In grade school when we're, we don't really know who we are yet, and then we go through this phase of trying to find yourself and all this stuff. I can honestly say that with, with conviction, I know who I am right now. I know what I'm about. Mm-hmm. I know what I write and I know what I stand for. And everybody who's read my book or who listens to my podcast and who's in my life, they know what I'm about right now. You know? So there is no non execution. Granted at the start of this podcast, you're like, yeah, sometimes we go through these phases where we're half and a half out, you know, that happens with fucking life, you know, but we're never all the way out, like you said. Right?

Muncy: 44:19

Yeah. And like, you're happy for people to hear the work you're doing too, because you're proud of it and you know, there's, uh, I don't know. Before I felt like, I don't know, just I didn't wanna share, like, I didn't feel like I could share anything with anyone, like, who would want to hear this? Like, you just weren't wa like, I wasn't walking the walk. Right.

Jon: 44:39

But we are now. Yeah. So we're, we're here to in, that's true. I'm here to inspire people that are doing the same thing that we did back then. Just keep working at it. If you know deep down you're not walking the walk, there are certain things you need to do in order to do so. In order for us to walk the walk, we had to get sober. That was the first preliminary condition. In order for me to start living the life I truly wanted to live. And it took me eight years to get sober. You know, it ain't fucking easy, but we figured it out. And then, like we talked about before, getting sober doesn't solve all your problems, so now you got a whole list of other problems. But like, I'd like to tell people, even if you're not dealing with like addiction, like us, I'd like to say heavy addiction, right? If you know there's certain things you need to do in order to execute and live life with conviction, you gotta do'em. If you gotta get healthy physically, emotionally, or mentally, you know, there's the steps you need to take, right? So it's gotta be real with yourself. And I'm gonna segue into the next point. For those that think they don't need any help, that is the ego telling you that you, that's the ego. That is the ego telling you that nothing's wrong. You're in the right all the time, and you don't need any help. So how do we starve the ego, Mr. Muncy?

Muncy: 46:11

That's a million dollar question, man. I'm trying to figure it out myself. Uh, I think we, we can't rest on our laurels. Uh, we have to, uh, continue, like there's no end point to the work that we're doing. You know, there needs to be a purpose and, and we, we need to identify what our purpose is. It's okay if we don't know what it is. I know, you know, I feel like I know what mine is, but it's, uh, something we need to continue living out through our actions, and we need to be able to block out the noise and like, not get hung up on things that we've already done. Right? So, like, um, I don't know, making a podcast episode, you're not gonna listen to it like 50 times, right? That would be the ego, you know? Uh, if I make a song, I need to listen to it. I, I actually need to listen to it enough times to know that it's. Right. And that it's good to put out to the world and, but I need to be able to wear that hat as long as I need to, and then I need to be able to take it off when the time is right. Right. Like same with like, writing each, each part of your process plays a significant role, but it needs, we need to, it needs to stay in its lane. Right. And, uh, you know, uploading something, we don't need to go see who's watching all the time, who's, who's saying what about it, like, yeah, it's important. We, we need to know the analytics and we need to engage with people in the ways, like the tools that we have at our disposal to connect with people. I don't know why it's so hard to connect with people through these, uh, you know, systems, but it, that's what it's there for, is to connect with people, uh, to me, um, for what I'm doing. And so I need to remember that. And if I'm gonna use these tools, which is what I would like to identify them as, they need to be that, just that, you know. And, um, that's just one aspect of it. As a creative though, I think like this can, this can be true for everyone no matter what they do, whether they're creative people, whether they're more left brain, um, just continue doing the work. Don't get hung up. The celebration, celebration phase needs to be minimal, I think for anyone. Like reward yourself for sure. But, uh, I don't know. What are your thoughts? Man, I'm struggling with it. To tell you the truth. I, I know that my work comes from my soul, but like, the reason I'm not more productive and uh, more I'm not doing more work is because I get in my own way, right?

Jon: 48:46

So there's actually a couple things that I, I had thought about and I had wrote when you told me this on the phone a couple weeks ago. So, first I'm gonna give the textbook f at, um, definition of the ego. So an ego is a person's sense of self-esteem or self importance right now. And then there's another definition for psychoanalysis, the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity. So those are the textbook definitions. I have my own definition of the ego, and for me, I, I just view it as almost the evil side of everyone's pride. Now, pride is one of the seven deadly sins. But there are seven deadly sins and there are also seven heavenly sins. In my opinion. I believe that everything has two sides, and I just don't, you know, I'm not some Buddhist monk sitting on a, a mountain that has no sin and no pride and no nothing, you know, like it's okay to be proud of your accomplishments, right? Like I'm, I'm proud of the fact I've, I've beaten addiction. You know, that's something to be proud of. And I think that starving that ego now getting too big for my britches is how you relapse. And it's like, well, I was, you know, adept enough to get sober. If I use, because I've worked hard enough, I can get sober again. That would be pride speaking. Right? And that's not necessary to always be checking the views or the comments and stuff. Like you said, like who's watching and all this stuff. Like what are they saying about the things I've done? Like. It's, it's just almost so unnecessary, you know, like to try and like, just keep working towards being yourself without pride is, is enjoyment to me. You know? And I can see why you, you get set back, I get set back too. And the, the other point I was gonna make is in an industry where everyone is talking about how they're the shit, right? Which is literally rap, you know, um, in one way or another, everyone is the fucking best. Everyone's the shit, right? And it's dangerous. But here's the thing, it's almost god damn. It's almost like, here's the thing with rap, it's like a battle arena for gladiators with words, you know? And everyone's just duking it out in this arena. Like, I'm the fucking best, you know? So like, if you don't puff up your chest a little bit, you're gonna get knocked the fuck over. Right? You know? Yeah.

Muncy: 51:39

So, so that, that brings me to, to a point in, uh, it reminded me of this, when you read the, the textbook definitions or whatever, like we, um, we can't exist without our ego, right? Like we, we do need, and we do need our ego. Um, we, we can't exist without it. It does always gonna be, it's always gonna play a role. It's always gonna be, uh, present to some extent. But like, we, we can't let it run the show, right? It can't be drive, it can't be the driving force, you know, like, um, that's what's, it's a slippery slope for me, man. Like, I don't know. I feel like I, I have a good idea of which side of the line I'm riding on. But I can, like, you know, it's a wobbly walk. Like, I, I don't know.

Jon: 52:26

You're conscious of it though, you know, it's like it's, mm-hmm. It's dangerous to get it. It'd be dangerous if you didn't have that self-awareness, because then you get people who literally live and breathe on hubris and pride, you know, and that's mm-hmm. Um, detrimental to other people, you know, and obviously the, and

Muncy: 52:43

maybe your ego exists at sometimes to like, to, for that assertive, like, like, let's talk about assertiveness, for example, to keep other people to, who are acting out of pure pride. Uh, like in check sometimes, you know, like sometimes you, the universe is relying on you to like, play your role, be like, Hey, no, that's like, nah, like, listen, you know, or whatever.

Jon: 53:05

I don't know. I think it's also to protect you though, you know? And l like in the definition, it's like a sense of self-identity. It's okay to have that self asen, uh, self felt, self-identity. You know, like if you didn't have that sense of self-identity, then every person that you met that told you something about yourself, you're like, they're totally right. I'm gonna take that. You know, everybody's like, and would we even,

Muncy: 53:30

would we even feel like a piece of shit for, for like our, a addictions and stuff if it weren't for the ego? Like if it's, if it's what makes us feel so great about ourselves, isn't it what makes us feel like awful about

Jon: 53:41

ourselves too, right? Well, it's, I think it's completely separate of who we actually are. It's just kind of like the voice. It's, it's just this really loud voice in our head sometimes that really think it, it knows everything. It knows everything about you. It knows everything about the people you surround yourself with, and it's just dangerous. Like I said, it's a seven heavenly and a seven deadly sin. The ego can be used to protect yourself. It can also give you a form of identity. It also in my, in my own opinion, it's the part of me that thinks I don't need anybody's help and mm-hmm. That's not true. Cuz we're all human and we're all fucking in this together, you know? And in my times of intense pride and hubris, I felt I had it all figured out and I don't need anybody's help and I'm gonna do this myself and everybody can fuck off in the process, you know? And how d how dangerous is that? You know? And it was, and also for sure cause we're social, social creatures, you know? Right. And also, like you said, will, are we still gonna feel ashamed of doing the drugs when we were in active addiction? Because the, the ego gave me the idea that I'm in the right for doing all these drugs, you know? And the other side of the ego was telling me I can fix it without anybody's help too. So it's like, yeah, we're in the right for doing all these drugs. And then when I wanted to get sober, it's like, yeah, we're in the right for thinking. We could do it by ourself too, which isn't true, you know? Right. I think it's how you channel it that could be healthy. Yeah.

Muncy: 55:28

Well

Jon: 55:28

put, we're not channeling, it could be healthy. It's just a

Muncy: 55:31

Yeah. Sometimes we just need to keep, keep it in its place, you know? Right. Keep it where it belongs. Sometimes it doesn't need to come out, but, so, so

Jon: 55:38

how do you keep it at, how the que, how do you keep it at bay? How do you keep it at bay? How do you keep the ego at bay?

Muncy: 55:46

I think doing work that matters, uh, doing work that matters. Uh, Valuing other people like, I think so in the fellowship that I'm in, you know, service work is valued. It's important. It's, uh, you know, giving backs how, how I keep what I have so to say, and it gets me outside of myself. So something like going to a meeting and making coffee once a week, which I'm not currently doing. Um, but something like that, um, it could be something. And for, for anyone, it could be something as simple as holding the door for someone. But it's, it's really tricky because. That's like, oh, like I want you to know I held the door for you. Right, right. I mean, like, that's ego is so slick, dude. Like just, you know, you see someone comment and you're like, oh, I'm just gonna hold the door. And like, if you don't say thank you, then like, fuck you, you're an asshole. You know, like I, I, I think like, we, so the, the nature of like the service that we do, I think is important too. Cuz is it something that will allow us the space to actually work, work and not, like, not feed. We are not feeding our ego at those times, you know? And if we are, it's not, it's not paramount to what, uh, the work, our soul work we're doing for our soul. Right. So the ego is like, we're, we're leaving it like a trail of like we're, we're leaving it a trail of food or something. We're feeding it. Right. But it's, it's, but it's not front and center stage like our soul is, we're like pumping it with IVs and like, you know, We're pumping it with IVs, we're lotioning it. We're like, we're hooking our soul up, dude. And then our ego is just like, we're like trailing along. We're like, yeah, yeah, come on. Like you, you're staying with us too. Like, we, like, we need you too, but like, you know, you wanna run the show. And I like, we can't let you do that right now. So like, here, just keep, you know, follow, follow along. Ow. Something like that.

Jon: 57:44

I, I feel like the ego's just looking for recognition the whole

Muncy: 57:48

time. Yeah. Like, Hey, what about me guys? Yo, yo. Like, yo, I'm still here. Don't you see me? Don't you see what I'm doing? Like, hey,

Jon: 57:57

like, gimme the credit I deserve.

Muncy: 58:00

Exactly. And doing things. And that reflects in all of our work, doing things with no expectation for credit or recognition, which really that barely exists in today's world. Like that very thing is so hard to come across and it's so hard to even do because we are, we are like, Um, dude, everywhere we turn, someone's going to give us some sort of validation, um, or we're gonna like, do something and we're gonna receive something for it. And so how do you, how do you do that work? What does that work look like? I think it's different for everyone, but there are place, like I know Brandon volunteers every Saturday at like a soup kitchen, you know, and no one knows who he is there. Like no one knows his name. Like maybe they know his name, like, hey, like he probably says like, Hey, I'm Brandon, or whatever, but he's not going there to like, like take pictures and like post online. Like, oh, look at me, I'm doing volunteer work. Like, no, it's not fucking about that. Yeah. He doesn't give a shit about that. He's going and he's doing, uh, like what I would call God's work, you know? And I think that is, uh, that's what feeds the soul. That's what starves the ego and feeds the soul. And then it can, it can keep our ego at bay and allow it to do what it needs to do in our life.

Jon: 59:19

Well, I think to have that having, having the identity is, is okay, I'm gonna wake up and I'm John, right? But I'm not gonna do things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna do things. So John gets praised, you know, like you said, he goes to the soup kitchen, he's not taking pictures and shit like that. And I think in the day and age with technology, and I talk a lot about technology on the Feel Free podcast and how I don't like it and everybody's doing it for all recognition, I'm gonna take pictures and videos of all the good things I'm doing. So people tell me, wow, you're doing such good things. Like that's fucking stupid. You're literally defeating the purpose of doing it. Guilty. Yeah. I mean, well I mean like for a public figure, you have to like show you're following that you're doing these things, otherwise nobody knows who you are, you are anymore. You know, and it's, it's such a slippery slope and a fine line between trying to be a public figure who really wants to help people emotionally and mentally, like find their true selves. And then like you're literally dabbling in. The, the ego, you're literally dabbling in the things that could fucking destroy you, you know? Which is why it took me so long to like get all these social medias and shit going. Cuz that was the only thing that prohibited me from even putting out my first song or doing a podcast or things like that. Like I've despise social media cuz it just oozes pride to me. And, um, uh, what's, uh, vain vanity. It's just so vain all the time for no fucking reason, you know? And to walk that fine line, like you said, cuz you, like I said, you are in an industry where it, it's, it's, it's uh, it's all pride, you know? And I think you fighting with your ego and being self-aware of it is going to make you stronger. It's gonna make your words stronger from your soul. It's gonna make your story stronger. So I think you've got it figured out. You might feel like you're taking hits in the corner of a boxing ring, but I think you're getting there, you know, so I wouldn't trip about it.

Muncy: 1:01:20

Word getting there.

Jon: 1:01:22

I, I'm right there. I'm right there with you. It's almost like walking a tight rope. It's shaky. But I think in order to, like you said, strive the ego, we have to, we have to do things for people without recognition. And I think even doing things for ourselves, like self-care and stuff is, is good for the soul. You know, physical wellness, emotional wellness, like having all your ducks in a row and then once you have all your ducks in a row, giving back to the people who might be down. You know? I think that's, that's good. And I think revisiting your past is good because it's humbling. Humility is obviously the antidote to pride, in my opinion. You know, realizing that we're. You know, we're just average. We're just another, we're just another human like everyone else trying to live their best life. You know, I'm not so special that I'm above everybody else's problems. We all have the same problems, right? So, Hmm.

Muncy: 1:02:22

Yeah. Right. Like we're all, like, we're all so special, but we're all not special at all at the same time, but we're all,

Jon: 1:02:29

yeah. Yeah, for sure. And it's, uh, it's tough to come to that conclusion too. Like I said, you know, we don't want to ask for help, but sometimes I need help understanding that I'm just another, I'm just another dude. I'm just a dude with a microphone. You know? Like, what the fuck? There are people who don't have microphones and people who do have microphones, and I'm just another guy, you know?

Muncy: 1:02:56

But you're living your purpose, man. I, and I think you had to go through a lot to do that, so You too. It's cool to see. Yeah.

Jon: 1:03:02

Yes, sir. So telling people. You'll go out there and do some good things and don't videotape it. Go out and just be like our friend Brandon. Go to the soup kitchen and, and just do things and don't put it on Instagram. How about that? Um, yeah.

Muncy: 1:03:19

Sounds good. That's, that's what he said, right?

Jon: 1:03:22

Uh, so I am gonna say this. You have a single that's dropping, you can pre-order it on dis distro kid. It's, uh, the all, you can pre-shave it on

Muncy: 1:03:31

Distro Kid, right?

Jon: 1:03:32

And yep, it's available. It's called All On Me. It's All On Me. It's available on May 14th. So you have an entire week to pre-shave this single, and, you know, if you've stayed for the entire episode, you're, you're pretty much liable now to, to pre-shave the single as well. So you, you have to, if you've listened to the whole episode, I'm telling all my listeners they have to. So let's go.

Muncy: 1:03:56

You guys won't be disappointed, I promise. It's my ego and my soul talking. You will, you're gonna like this

Jon: 1:04:03

one, and I will put a link in the description for all of those people who can't find it. So I'll hook it up. So we talked a lot today, got the new album coming out, you've been dropping singles, it's very exciting. Talked a little bit about physical wellness. We talked a lot about recovery in our place with sobriety. Starving, the ego feeding the soul and all these big moves that you've been making over the last, the last year and this, this turn in, in Muncy Muncy 2.0, this, this hope and this positivity. And I just wanna say, I, I appreciate you coming on to talk again. I think this was a fantastic podcast episode as usual, you know?

Muncy: 1:04:46

Yeah. I appreciate you having me, bro. Yeah, it's always a pleasure.

Jon: 1:04:49

Is there anything else you wanna say to the listeners before you dip out?

Muncy: 1:04:57

Just, uh, keep, keep doing the work, keep going and stay true to you always. No matter what anyone says, that's what I

Jon: 1:05:05

got for you. I appreciate it, man. It's inspirational as hell. So everybody go check out Muncy. He's on all the best listening social media platforms. I will be dropping links in all the descriptions, give him a follow, a share, and to listen. Really appreciate everybody coming out. To chill with us and you guys have a good rest of your day. Stay up and feel free.