FEEL FREE
FEEL FREE is a general wellness podcast centered around health, habits, and hobbies. Jon Cerone, a recovering addict, and his guests use stories of adversity and comedy in order to inspire others to chase their dreams and live their best lives.
FEEL FREE
Brandon Kaitschuck: Finding Purpose in Pain with Life Reflections
Brandon returns to the podcast for a hilarious, yet inspiring and informative conversation. You’ll hear personal stories that highlight perseverance and the competitive spirit, making the connection between wellness and self development.
The humor continues as we recount father-son rivalries, teenage rebellion, and the hilariously creative ways we hid our teenage contraband. Whether it's competitive leg wrestling with our dads or sneaking out to buy beer, these stories blend authenticity with humor, showcasing the complexities of growing up.
Reflection takes center stage as we discuss high school antics, substance use, and the journey towards sobriety and inner peace. Through the tragic story of a friend's overdose, we underscore the importance of learning from past mistakes. We round off the episode with insights into human behavior, exploring how conditions like OCD and ADHD can be seen as superpowers. Balancing serious discussions with light-hearted banter, we encourage listeners to reflect, stay positive, and appreciate the quirks that make life interesting.
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what are we doing? Ah, dude, that's a deep question I'm gonna ask you this. Well, I'm not doing an intro for this episode.
Speaker 2:We're literally not going. No, just assuming the audience already knows who they already know what we're doing, okay.
Speaker 1:Secondly, you have two different socks on. Does that bother you? Does that trigger you might have to cut the episode what the fuck?
Speaker 2:I thought they're gonna see my feet I see your feet it just throws the whole thing. Listen, dude, would you prefer I take them off, or is that going to be even worse?
Speaker 1:Listen, we can't. Next thing you know, people are taking pictures of your feet. All right, they're going on websites.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Toad.
Speaker 1:You know, that's kind of a whole concept there.
Speaker 2:Buy the foot calendar Fucking, do it, you need it, you need it, you don't think?
Speaker 1:you do, but you need it. I have one. Did you purchase a foot calendar? Kai gave me it because I brought all the homies. He gifted it to you Because I brought all the homies out for the show.
Speaker 2:That is a very nice.
Speaker 1:It was disturbing calendar.
Speaker 2:I showed it to everybody out in the lobby and they're like that's gross. That's fucked up. There's some pretty female feet on. You're into huh feet? Well, you could be indifferent. I'm indifferent towards feet, so okay, I'm indifferent. I don't have a foot fetish, but I'm not like grossed out. Now there are gross feet. Right, there were some gross feet on that calendar, I'll give you that, but a lot of them were aesthetically fine. They were okay. Right, your feet gross you out uh, grossed out by feet?
Speaker 1:no, I mean just some of the pictures are. It's a little weird. Did you see which one was my foot? I, I couldn't look at those feet and be like that's brandon's foot, you don't know my foot.
Speaker 2:I don't know your real confidence. Do you want me to take my socks off so you can get a better understanding of my feet? I saw them last night. You didn't have socks.
Speaker 1:I didn't have socks on you didn't have my feet are looking gross from the running you see I have like a blood blister on my toes. You're going pretty hard on the running thing I I could do better.
Speaker 2:I could goggins it up a little bit. I don't think you can do better. Feet aren't pretty when you run, though they're not josh josh harrison's feet.
Speaker 1:His nails just fall off or if you play a lot of basketball. Yeah, yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:Well, apparently, it fucks up your knees, your legs, your fucking ankles, my soul.
Speaker 1:Your soul, everything it's a black hole.
Speaker 2:I don't even know why I'm still doing it at this point, because you're a masochist, I know, and you feel like in some way you deserve a little bit of pain. What is?
Speaker 1:life without pain.
Speaker 2:Dude.
Speaker 1:It's not worth it. It's not worth it, it's not dude.
Speaker 2:You can't have purpose without pain and Mohammed says you have to take that pain and you assign purpose to it and when we get good at doing that, life becomes a lot more fulfilling, right, instead of like the poor me, poor me, why is this happening to me? You can take an experience that maybe at one point in your life you found is negative or overbearing, and then you assign purpose, like holy shit, like I learned that Right, it's a lot so not sure really with the basketball, but maybe you're learning how to fucking maneuver a basketball better.
Speaker 1:I'm just here to dunk. You're here to dunk on motherfuckers. I'm here to dunk on motherfuckers, and you jump pretty high too, from what I hear, white boy can jump. White boy can jump.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who jumps higher, you or Joe Me? Fuck, yeah, you answered it confidently. Yeah, I know it is.
Speaker 1:You know that you can jump higher Because he's an inch taller than me and he can't throw it down like me Damn Okay.
Speaker 2:Would he disagree or would he be objectively like okay, he can jump higher.
Speaker 1:No, he's going to say he jumps higher than me.
Speaker 2:Okay, he doesn't. But then he would say well, I can run faster than you, and that's fine, and you're like you take that, you do Great. So you'd rather be so in your position. He's like do you feel like it's more of a flex to be able to jump higher as a young man in his 30s? Is it more of a flex to be a man? I'd say both are athletically important.
Speaker 1:Well, let's take this a step further, okay, I beat Joe in a one-on-one three months ago, okay.
Speaker 2:You did.
Speaker 1:I did, and I beat him two years ago in a one-on-one. Now get this. I haven't beat him since we were like 11. Holy shit.
Speaker 2:He's torched me Okay.
Speaker 1:In one-on-ones, and then finally, because I've just been playing a lot he hasn't and he hasn't, he's been running, he's been running, but he's still got the endurance on me.
Speaker 2:He doesn't gas?
Speaker 1:He's not.
Speaker 2:But he's losing the dribbling and the maneuvering.
Speaker 1:His shot ain't there and his shot.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of elements to basketball.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's more well-rounded Right and each person got the ball. He would beat me in endurance. Got you, because we're playing tough defense on each other also and trying to score. He would have beat me in a game of attrition, but skill you got the skill I got it Because you're starting to master that craft.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, so back to the pain with purpose. What has this experience taught you? Navigating some of these painful moments in basketball? You get these injuries and stuff and you assign purpose to that and you learn how to maneuver through it. Because it throws it, you physically are unable to perform in the same athletic ways that you want to or that you were, so it's got to be teaching you kind of how to navigate that. What have you done in response to some of these injuries?
Speaker 1:I haven't stopped being active. So in previous times when I'd get injured, I'd be very depressed. I would not work out, I would eat unhealthy amounts of bad food and scroll my phone play video games and just like that pleasure, gratification right, I can't do it because I hurt myself right, so I gotta be fucking the worst.
Speaker 1:What we were talking about on the podcast last week with my brother is like you need to have an idea or a goal in mind of what you're trying to do. My goal for a long time of my fitness goal, I just wanted to be a better basketball player. It wasn't about being in shape or anything. To me it was literally just basketball. So when basketball was taken away from me, I didn't adapt and change my goal. I'm like I have no basketball. I don't need to be in shape Fitness is gone.
Speaker 2:There's no purpose beyond it. It was tied to that specific extrinsic thing.
Speaker 1:So the last two times that I've been injured a month ago and a week ago now I have stayed active. I haven't been able to do cardio. I'm able to still do all of my weightlifting sauna runs everything else. I just needed to learn that just because I injured my ankle, I'm not helpless for sure.
Speaker 2:So that's cool, man, yeah, yeah. Well, there's some purpose. I did the thing where you look at the camera. I was like when do I look at the camera?
Speaker 1:do we look there now at the same time, edgar's not gonna cut this edgar's not gonna cut this.
Speaker 2:Shout out to edgar man, fucking reels are looking sexy this is I'm happy to be on here, by the way. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm happy for you.
Speaker 2:I see all the nice looking footage of everybody else. And then I see my stuff on the older camera and I'm like oh and and the webcam it was a good sound quality.
Speaker 1:I got a lot of shit for that because I like to use my earbuds it's fine if you have the earbuds in for listening to the audio, but the speaking, yeah, for sure. I thought it sounded fine, I'm actually thinking that my camera is going to be in 4K.
Speaker 2:I'm pixelated. And I'm going to tell A Nokia phone quality. I'm going to tell.
Speaker 1:Edgar, to keep yours in 240p, just like really down there.
Speaker 2:So fucking funny, like pixelated. Yeah, just like really down there.
Speaker 1:So fucking funny Like pixelated, yeah, and then change your voice too, like how I'm like.
Speaker 2:Like I'm a drug king, like on Cops or something. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Should we do that?
Speaker 2:No, we're not so good.
Speaker 1:That'd be pretty funny man. So It'd be so hard to listen to.
Speaker 2:What are we doing? What are we doing here? Well, that is an existential question that I would almost defer to someone of your caliber. The philosopher man, that's your archetype. Like you're the philosopher, You're the man of wisdom. You read a lot of Nietzsche, Stoicism. I like memes, man. So I'm here for the fucking memes and I hope I can only hope that somebody would make a meme out of this podcast, Liquid death. I'm here. I'm also here for the advertising.
Speaker 1:Are you gonna? So? I actually got this lo-fi girl mug right here, but we can't see it. Is that the cat? That's the cat.
Speaker 2:That's Garfield.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. It's not Garfield, but is that?
Speaker 2:something I should know, an anime thing.
Speaker 1:Well, no, like lo-fi girls, that channel on YouTube with the girl doing the homework, the homework the hip hop beats.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's her cat. Oh no shit. So I ordered that just to kind of have it there.
Speaker 1:And then my sister got me the dragon for Christmas.
Speaker 2:Okay, is my bad motherfucker wallet not in the frame?
Speaker 1:see it okay, well, I don't really care if they can see it I I had a feeling he didn't care well, I don't care if they don't see fake garfield, because that's just fake news.
Speaker 2:Garfield, it's fake news you know.
Speaker 1:That's why I ordered news for a long time.
Speaker 2:That's why listen it's a very, very fake garfield. It's a chinese garfield, actually. Japanese, probably japanese talking lo-fi hip-hop beats lo-fi hip-hop. That's a Japanese thing, korean it's you know.
Speaker 1:What kind of vibe? It's Asian, it's an East.
Speaker 2:Asian vibe Listen, it's an autistic.
Speaker 1:Asian vibe. Should I flex right now? Lo-fi you should flex. You could say that it started in Japan, okay.
Speaker 2:You could say the father of Lo-Fi Nujabes.
Speaker 1:Nujab was a composer in Japan who created the soundtrack for Samurai Champloo, but he also made really famous taking old beats and putting them through low fidelity filters to make lo-fi.
Speaker 2:So this is like a. This isn't like a genre. Some dude really created this entire. I guess it is a genre.
Speaker 1:It just blew up like people take old like jazz old classical Genre. This is like some dude really created this entire. I guess it is a genre. It just blew up Like people take old, like jazz, old classical music, old samples and shit and throw it over hip hop drums, which is what producers did in the 80s and 90s for hip hop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was watching that thing on Netflix where they talked about I think Lil Jon was on it and shit Right, the evolution of hip hop.
Speaker 1:That is what producers do. But then what happened? In the 2000s, like the early 2000s and even the 2010s, everything in music became high fidelity, like everything is crispy. Everything on the radio you hear is the highest quality. The sound waves are perfect, all that shit that Muncie and Kai do to the music to make it sound great Low fidelity lo-fi is putting it through filters to give it that 90s vintage feel.
Speaker 2:gosh, you can almost hear like the crackling, the crackling, yeah, yeah, god right that's, that's cool that's what lo-fi is yeah, I like that shit. You put me on that lo-fi stuff, man, like homework in the background, kind of like you. You had your tv just playing in the background. Yeah, I think my cat likes it too. It's chill, you know, fucking attacks the screen once in a while. He sees like a mouse or something on there but it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Cat tv is funny, like with the birds and shit. Yeah they chirp and he goes fucking crazy dude, but yeah, my cat does that weird like click she's at the window clicking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. It's a very primitive thing that these cats do.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're just primitive individuals. They are dude.
Speaker 2:They want to catch even the domesticated cats. They want to catch a fucking bird. I encourage everybody let their cat out to go catch a fucking bird once in a while. Do you let Satoshi out? No, because I don't want to get hurt, but you should let your cat out and then tell me how it goes. Rules for thee, not for me. He could, though, if he wanted to. Yeah, for sure I believe in him.
Speaker 1:He's smart. My cat used to get out my old cat, bubba. Okay, he used to declawed and he would still catch mice.
Speaker 2:Stripes did too. Yeah, they were all declawed and they would catch mice and he jumped up and caught a bird. I'm like you're fucking crazy. These cats are smart man. Talk about cats for hours. Fucking love cats. We're cat guys, we're cat guys, cat guys. And I have. There is nothing to be ashamed about for being a cat guy man.
Speaker 1:Anyone who?
Speaker 2:says otherwise fuck them. I don't really respect what that girl said about that.
Speaker 1:I don't really respect that there was an individual who just wasn't a huge fan of guys liking cats and uh, but the fact that she said, yeah, you really shouldn't tell girls that yeah, that was a huge l dude.
Speaker 2:I was like whatever yeah, just tell her that huge l dude I love my cat I'm proud of it.
Speaker 1:He's a cool cat. I haven't met him yet. I'm looking forward to meeting him.
Speaker 2:You haven't met toshie yet you slap his ass like a chicken he's like a raw chicken.
Speaker 1:You smack, smack, smack, hairless little ball sack dude, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2:It's very like I said tell us, telling you, it's very weird touching cats with hair. Now I'm like shouldn't have that hair, it's unnatural.
Speaker 1:Shave those fuckers that's what I feel about my hair. Yeah, you're here.
Speaker 2:I'm like when you were sleeping last night I came into your room. I thought so.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I was touching your hair and I'm like this feels weird. We got to get rid of it, yeah. So I decided that I thought it would be rude to not ask you first before we shaved your your head. So I was gonna by the time we do the next podcast. I did bring like a razor with me and I'm we're gonna get you. I know lisa's gonna love it. Man, she's her and I talked about already. She hates my hair. Why is she does?
Speaker 1:she really hate your hair? No, she doesn't she loves it.
Speaker 2:Your hair is great.
Speaker 1:You got a nice full head of hair but I'm thinking, uh, just getting rid of it all, are you really no?
Speaker 2:I was like, I know, I was like kid, I can't, how would you look bald? I'm trying to imagine right now Not good, not good, not good, not good. Exactly, let's keep the hair, john. Okay, yeah, tats, look good.
Speaker 1:You look good man. Hey, I was going to ask you. You're supposed to have sleeves by now.
Speaker 2:Not by now. I told you it's on the radar, is it? Don't you need money to have tattoos? Yeah, I need a little bit more.
Speaker 2:You're going to have it done right, yeah, we'll have it done right. It's like by the time I'm 35, the transformation will be fucking wild, bro. So this is one year, but 35 is going to be fucking jaw dropping, especially with all the plastic surgery and shit. I'm going to get All the plastic surgery and shit I'm gonna get plastic is all the plastic surgery and steroids are gonna be fucking crazy like dude. That guy changed his life.
Speaker 1:Are you gonna start eating liver too? No, I will start eating liver.
Speaker 2:You know, um, how was that cold plunge you did? Oh, dude, it was. It was silly, it was fun, it was good, it shocked. It shocked the mind, the body a little bit, but like it's something that I would, I would maybe get into. After saunas I do the cold shower, which is great. I'm getting a lot of fulfillment from that. But it's definitely not a part of my regular cadence or routine and I'm not at the point to where I'm going to go buy one. But from what I read they seem to be a really healthy thing to do. It gives you natural energy, releases endorphins, relieves stress. But that Shakti mat is like a new part of my morning routine. I always lay on that like bed of nails and the acupressure I feel. So it's like I've substituted my meditation for laying on that thing and then doing like deep breathing and that's been great. It's subjecting yourself to a little bit of discomfort in the morning getting your morning routine done and then your body feels like nice and stimulated throughout the morning and rest of the day.
Speaker 1:So nice, it's cool. I stretch in the morning I do a few stretches to open up my hips and my legs. And I read a little, I wouldn't. I mean, I guess you'd say it's a devotion from a Taoism book. Okay, it's like a 365 Taoism.
Speaker 2:So is that what you're reading this morning?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, cool, and I read that and then I meditate for a minimum of five minutes.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Yeah, I love that We've very similar routines. So, 365 day reading, similar. I got the recovery one. 10 minute meditation with the Shakti mat type thing, meditation with the Shakti mat type thing, three things I'm grateful for. Write that down. And then I read my personal mission and vision statement and I believe, like other than you know, brushing teeth and like regular stuff, those, those are the added extra. Oh, then I say like a gratitude, like prayer type thing, I've incorporated that mantra. But yeah, it's a great way to stack wins when you wake up, oh, the bed. Of course I make the bed. That's the one thing that we're maybe different on. I make the bed first and foremost. I usually do that before or after I brush my teeth, then all the other stuff. Yeah, I'm not making my bed.
Speaker 1:He's not making his bed. I'm not doing it, I feel like that's great bro. I'm not doing it. Think my life would be a lot more successful if I just I'm not doing it. I'm actually scared of how successful my life would be.
Speaker 2:We're gonna win so much if we make our bet. It's gonna be crazy. We're gonna win. You're not gonna like it.
Speaker 1:You're not gonna like it did you guys go to see uh borden b jeterson?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was like who the fuck is he talking?
Speaker 1:about Gordon Smee.
Speaker 2:Peterson. We did dude His talk about what is it? He was talking about something dude. It was pretty cool. I fell asleep. What?
Speaker 1:No, I didn't fall asleep, did he tell you?
Speaker 2:He talked about God and he talked about from the Bible. He talked about what the fuck's the guy's name about from the Bible. He talked about what the fuck's the guy's name. I'm so not, like you know, into like biblical stuff, but he talked about Moses. He talked about Moses and the Egyptians and his interpretation of that part of the Bible and, you know, had his Jordan Peterson rant lecture.
Speaker 2:I'd never attended one of his lectures but I felt like the message was it was well received on my end. Aiden and I both went and it was great it was. It was also an opportunity for him to advertise quite a bit. He advertised like his academy and everything he's doing and it's cool. Like the guys, the guys the businessman felt like the talk went pretty well. There was a few moments where feel like you know kind of went like left field or whatnot, but it was uh, it was engaging, it was an interesting experience. Uh, definitely probably good on that. I won't think I'd go back to something like that. But you know, man, there's there's a lot of really great content and clips and speeches and stuff that he's delivered.
Speaker 2:So appreciate his perspective, especially as somebody who in academia had to fight so hard for like free speech and he's so ousted and just like an individual that certainly has been targeted to be like, painted a certain picture in a different light, and I have a respect for people who can rise above all the hate, negativity and still like, convey, like you know, a very principled message.
Speaker 2:And it's very evident that him and his wife have a very similar vision. They're both on board with each other, they love each other and he takes a stance and he backs it up by science and his entire career as a psychologist, and I respect that as a psychologist and I respect that. So it's also cool to hear perspective more from a religious side, which I've never dived into, that I never had too much exposure to that as a child, and it's neat perspective right, looking at different spiritualities and faiths and interpretations of texts. So it was cool, it was good. Couldn't tell you really a damn thing about it other than that. Well, at least it was cool, it was good, couldn't tell you really a damn thing about it other than that At least it was enjoyable.
Speaker 2:It was. It was enjoyable. There were good moments. I almost feel like I wish I could have taken some notes and keynotes, but it was a lot. It was a lot, but it was well-received for sure.
Speaker 1:Cool. I don't think I've ever been to something like that.
Speaker 2:Like a talk or a lecture Really, because I feel like you'd be someone who'd see, like Neil deGrasse Tyson or some shit. I don't know, you know, maybe not that guy. I hear that guy's a dick.
Speaker 1:I think we just, I don't know, I haven't. Yeah, I guess I just haven't.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I got YouTube.
Speaker 2:University. I know His university. Him and his kids started some university too. That's supposed to be really affordable but actually teach you shit. That's important. So I respect that. A lot of the shit this guy's doing is pretty incredible Software they're developing a software too Note taking and shit. It's neat. Yeah, it's just something different. But yeah, it's just something different. You know, you can. You got all these people that come in and you can go to concert shows, keynote speakers We've been seeing stand up comedy. So I went and saw Bill Burr in Detroit recently. So Lonnie and I went along with Allison she's she's a VP company I work at and then her boyfriend, bill, had a great time. We had we had dinner, went and saw that, laughed our asses off. It's like enter entertainment man there's, there's a lot of uh fulfillment in that area. Create his creativity.
Speaker 1:it's all conducive to the mission, but I love it, you know it sounds like a good time it's cool dude, you ever go to like a live comedy event, uh yeah, we actually, my buddy dylan and I, when I visited him in california, we went to the comedy store.
Speaker 2:Oh, you did you visited the comedy store you saw joe rogan you saw joe rogan the comedy store, bro joe, again no shit did you see him perform, or was he just?
Speaker 1:there. Yeah no, I was like three feet from his bald head. That's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2:It was crazy. I was like, wow, dude big names are just going in there all the time just for fun who's that guy?
Speaker 1:uh, sebastian manis. Yeah, yeah, yeah he was before him okay, yeah, they were both pretty funny there was like 11. There was 11 comedians. We were in the front row okay, yeah, they asked us if we want to be in the front row and I was gonna let dylan answer. And then I'm like please don't say yes. And then he goes yeah, let's do the front row. I'm like ah, shit man, that's cool well, like the fourth or fifth person was like roasting us, obviously that's what it's, what happens?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was a.
Speaker 1:It was a lady and she was roasting us for laughing, like look at these two fucking guys, what are you laughing for? I'm like we're laughing, it's fucking. I was gonna be like you're funny. What do you? What do you mean? Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, but everybody laughed even more and I laughed even more too.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is what happens in the front row, you know, was it the way you were laughing, or was it? Yeah, I guess. So Okay, you have an obnoxious laugh. Has anyone told you that before?
Speaker 1:Really, I think I have an obnoxious face. You do.
Speaker 2:You got like that Jim Carrey thing you can do that carry thing. You can do that, I know. I think my face is actually gonna get stuck like that sometimes that's what my parents always told me, right? What the fuck do they know, fuck you. You don't fucking know me. Fuck you. Look at how great I'm doing. You won't fight them. I, oh I, I always, whenever I see my dad, I'm like, I'm like I got one left in me.
Speaker 1:I got one left in me.
Speaker 2:He's like get the fuck away from me I, I'm like you're getting old, you're getting fucking old, but that guy can put up fucking hella weight dude. He's still like. I hate to admit this shit, but authenticity is conducive to my mission statement. This motherfucker can bench press, and he actually benches more than me.
Speaker 1:How does that make you feel he's almost?
Speaker 2:60. It makes me feel like I got to work harder.
Speaker 1:So that's why I'm fucking doing it. I think my dad can bench more than me, but he's also got like-.
Speaker 2:But that's what he does.
Speaker 1:He does chest and and arms, thirsty arms, 30 years, chest and arms, that's it.
Speaker 2:I love that. It's so fucking funny. My dad does it all, he does his, and then it's all. He's going to be just going downhill because he's getting old. But yeah, when I see him I'm like punching him, I'm like giving him titty twisters. He's like get away from my nipples. I'm like I'm going to get you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get you. I just like get behind my dad and I like grab him like this.
Speaker 2:I squeeze him and then I pick him up. Bit yeah, you're not the fucking man. You thought you were Out of love, but also out of like. I'm stronger than you. It's competition too.
Speaker 1:It's competition, it's a masculine nature Once he started losing at ping pong and golf. It was all downhill for him Because he's really competitive.
Speaker 2:My mom beat me in leg wrestling back when I was like I don't know, like 100 pounds overweight and just wasted Her and I did like a leg wrestling. There's a video of it, kaylee has it. My mom's really good at leg wrestling. She's got really strong legs. I'm not sure if I could beat my mom at leg wrestling. It's crazy, my dad beats me.
Speaker 2:Actually I got a lot of work to do, man, even from like, uh, you know we talk about vices. So, uh, for me, I I dabble in the nicotine arts and that's and that's cigarettes once in a while it was like a vape for a while, um, not so much cigars. I hit, you know, the zen, the zen nicotines, but that's once. That's something that you that has an expiration date, that I occasionally pick up. But definitely, if I'm looking at the main hindrances, it was really obvious.
Speaker 2:In the past it was just always food, alcohol, there was gambling, there was bouts of gambling, but right now it's mostly like, okay, I eat off cycle once in a while on trips like this, the nicotine, but like, all in all it's having a level of control over like winning, winning most of the day, waking up and winning, and winning throughout the day with a couple of indulgences and some pleasure seeking, is just so much greater than I could have ever imagined, and having so much more control than where I was at like a year ago.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's unbelievable. It really is, because when you find purpose outside of that, that's when the progress starts happening Right. It's like that's not the purpose happening, right, it's like that's not the purpose. And before it was like very much like pleasure to consume yeah, to consume, and this is more of like just a little thing along the way, like a little treat. You know, you treat it differently, right, but everything has has an expiration date and and they're kind of like dabbling in the vices and stuff. So you said the, the nicotine arts, the nicotine.
Speaker 1:okay, so I dabbling in the vices and stuff. So you said the nicotine arts, the nicotine arts Okay so I only dabble in the dark arts.
Speaker 2:The dark. Well, the nicotine arts is a dark one, my friend. It's highly addicting it is, but I'm talking dark arts, Holy shit how dark is this podcast? I'm talking like horcruxes.
Speaker 2:Horcruxes, yeah, where you hiding little cigarettes around pieces of crack, fucking crack rock here and put some ketamine over here. We did that when I was so when we were kids, we had, uh, it's in middle school. We had this. We called it the bad box. I was like, do you, mom and dad home? Like no, we should open up the bad box. The bad box had porn in it, it had cigarettes, it had weed, it had like alcohol. I was like we just called it the bad box, like it was a very dark thing. It was the taboo box that had all the voices that a fucking middle school boy would want to indulge in and, uh, sometimes wonder where that box went. Dude, you know who's got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude who's got the bad box bro?
Speaker 1:I used to hide um cigarettes in the ceiling. So these are the horcruxes. The bedroom I stayed in growing up in high school was an extra room that we built in the garage, okay, and it had a drop ceiling like this. So I would, yep, push one of them up. You know the weed was up there, the. It was mostly cigarettes for me in high school, but, yeah, I had packs and cigarettes up there.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah good, oh yeah, it was great you stashed that shit, Right?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm also on the first floor. Everybody else's rooms were on the second floor.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I didn't sleep a lot in high school just staying up whatever, and that's why you sleep a lot now, because you're fucking front-loading all those hours that you need back. That's what I believe, honestly between the ages of 15 and 22,.
Speaker 1:Not a lot of good sleep, yeah, for seven years, and I love sleep now, but it was really easy for me to dip out the back door on the first floor to go smoke cigarettes and because that room was in the garage, technically it smelled kind of like a musty garage yeah, it already has to smell, right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you were good, we used to smoke hookah in there yeah, oh yeah, that was part of the bad boxes we used to smoke hookah in there and my mom would open the door and like it would just be like a fucking hookah lounge and we'd be playing like gamecube or something. She goes the fuck are you doing? And I'm like smoking hookah. And she goes you better get that out of there. And I'm like mom, but it's not weed, it's water vapor, it's water vapor, it's harmless.
Speaker 2:Hookah was the shit. As a young kid, right, it was like kind of innocent as fruity. It was like before vaping. It was like before vapes were a thing. We would get hookah, which is, like you know, actual tobacco, and all the arab kids we went to school with like, oh, my uncle can give you a discount. Like come to the store, they'll sell to whoever they don't give a fuck I loved hookah.
Speaker 1:It was great. It was great that would fucking your head.
Speaker 2:You get a buzz off of some hookah too, man there was a hookah lounge around here.
Speaker 1:That was just starting out when we were 16.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and it was dead.
Speaker 1:Like nobody was going there. So one of my buddies and some friends we're like 16 years- old we just go in there and the owner's like, oh, do you guys have IDs or something? And then we're like, no, can we smoke in here. And he looks around and it's fucking dead.
Speaker 2:He's like fuck man Fine whatever.
Speaker 1:so for like two years, just everybody in high school went to this hookah lounge, we had one too.
Speaker 1:We had one too, and then we all stopped going to it because it got really popular. Like finally, like he actually had like actual 20, 30 and 40 year old people or people of legal age to be in there. So too risky, we just stopped going. Yeah, obviously ours went all over the news. We had one. I remember 20, 30, and 40-year-old people or people of legal age to be in there. Too risky, we just stopped going obviously.
Speaker 2:Ours went all over the news. We had one. I remember there was news headlines Metro Detroit I fucking forget the name of it. Kaylee would probably remember We'd all go there. We'd all bring drugs it was me, everyone, all the drug dealers. We'd bring alcohol. We'd show a bunch of underage kids get fucked up. We'd be doing coke there. Ketamine, selling drugs, smoking, hookah, getting drunk. They had a DJ. These guys like they kept it going and going until the cops caught on and it was like a big bust, like they knew, like all these kids from these high schools are showing up getting drunk. It was all over like Fox 2. And I was watching. My parents were like I'm like, oh fuck, I'm like I guess we're not going there anymore. No, crazy.
Speaker 1:Close down right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nuts, dude these owners and even like looking at some of these businesses where you go in underage and I was buying beer when I was 16. So, like I would go into this gas station in White Lake after school, probably on the weekends be like a Friday or Saturday and I would have the responsibility to go in there and buy beer Cause I I fucking just I sent it. I would go in there, be like just grab the beer, put it on the fucking counter and the guy remember we called, I called him ID because he'd always asked for ID and I'd be like next time.
Speaker 2:I'd be like I'll bring it next time, I'll bring it next time. He's like no idea. I said I got a DUI, oh, okay, okay. He said next time. I said next time, id Next time, and I'd grab all this shit. I would take two or three trips with beer and I'd come back to the party Like I remember. I came back to my boy Steve's house Rest in peace and fucking everyone was like cheering they're like yeah, like all these upperclassmen were like this did it.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, it was like super bad, you know. Kind of like I did the thing, dude, like fuck, yeah, I got the beer and there was like a lot of, a lot of pride and celebration. Then I bought alcohol for for two girls that were stupid. They were stupid and, uh, I was stupid too. We were all stupid, we're stupid high school kids, but these were were girls, so it was different. So they got way too fucking drunk. They couldn't handle their shit. They got sick. And she snitched on me.
Speaker 2:He said Brandon K Chuck brought all this alcohol. He bought it. He bought it. He bought the alcohol. Mom called his parents. So we're on vacation, and my parents got an email from an angry mom and they found out that I was supplying these parties with alcohol and like they had found out, like they knew, like where I was buying it. So these girls, I told them everything, bro. So then my dad took me up to the place where I was buying it screamed this is my son, he's 16, don't fucking sell him alcohol anymore, he's fucking 16 and for like a whole group. I was embarrassed as fuck. And then I had to start going across the street to buy alcohol. It was really inconvenient for a week. I literally found another place to buy it a week later across the street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't fucking stop me oh my god, I'm not fucking leaving. So it's, it's wild man.
Speaker 2:Um, it's, it's, yeah, it's crazy thinking about like that high school experience and then also seeing how they were portrayed like Like my. My high school experience was very similar to that of like these super bad and like these types of like 2010s, like movies and shit, with with the parties, like it was very similar to that and uh, and I look back and I'm like I don't regret that shit. Like it, it I assigned purpose to it. There was a lot of fun, there was a lot of hedonistic pleasure seeking seeking and then a lot of pain because I got myself addicted to drugs, alcohol. I was lonely, I was confused, I fucking hated myself and it led to periods where my family didn't like me. I was getting cops called on me. Then they sent me to rehab and I felt like abandoned from that and like I just never fit in. Like I never fit in with my friends that were in my grade. So I hung out with upperclassmen that they're like, oh, this kid's fucking funny and these were smart kids, but they were like dropouts. I hung out with people that went to the alternative schools that were two, three years older than me, that accepted me, with all the older kids and I met, you know, older women, older, and I got invited to fucking better parties and then I would bring my other friends in that you know, could hang and we would basically have no supervision and we do everyone access to drugs, alcohol. And then I was like you know, actually I got pretty good at selling drugs, which was cool because I was the younger kid with older friends selling drugs and it. You, you get that validation from the ego and from the social acceptance and I had that, that validation from the ego and from the social acceptance, and I had that, but I was never really living a meaningful existence of purpose, Right. So there was some crazy stories and some crazy experiences and and a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:You know, people in recovery sometimes are people that are recently sober and like, oh, I wasted so much time or I wish I could have figured this out when I was ready. I'm like dude, I figured out when I needed to. Man, like my fucking teens were great, twenties were like there was a lot of pain, there was a lot of suffering, I made a lot of mistakes, but having that purpose now and knowing that like I did the thing, like I had fun, we had these parties. We had these experiences Like I'm flexatiated in that area. We had these experiences like I'm flexatiated in that area, like I don't need to go out, like I'm like, I'm like dude, I already did and I did it better than you, I was better at partying than you, I got better drugs, I did it. I don't need it, I don't seek it, fuck that, we're good, like we're good. You know, I had my fill and uh. But to go into it, yeah, like there was a lot of fun but there was pain, man losing. So this is one thing I actually haven't talked about. I'm sure I shared it with you but being freshman freshman at Grand Valley, right I had a really close friend of mine and that was Steve that I mentioned earlier and we partied his house and his mom was like let us do whatever, like, and he was in my grade.
Speaker 2:He eventually got kicked out of school, all turned to school. I'll save the whole story, but we got really close. We partied a lot together. I got sober he had got sober after he went to rehab, met a girl in rehab that he was at and they got together. They got married really quickly, super early in recovery. She was a recovering heroin addict.
Speaker 2:I go to college first week or second week of school at Grand Valley I get a phone call from my sister crying he died. He overdosed on heroin and died One of my best friends. Looking, a lot of great times with him and like a short amount of time too, is like we got really close, like I think we really started kind of hanging out like two or three years and we got really really close. You know, same facilities, same therapist and um, after the party phase and there was alignment and I got a call that he died. And that's just one of the things that happens when you hang out with people of that caliber that it could have been me. I hadn't dabbled at that point. I don't think. I think I tried heroin once at that point when I was that age, but I was still like 19, you know. But you get that call and it's like, ok, now I'm 18, 19 year old, grand Valley for his first time, come back and I got to give the eulogy at Steve's funeral and one real positive thing from that was when he had got sober.
Speaker 2:Steve had a really big heart and, yeah, he was like dude, obviously, like really wild life of the party, one of the funniest motherfuckers I ever met, super sharp and smart but just couldn't behave himself, dude. He was there to entertain and get laughs and teachers loved him, but he would disrupt an entire class and he would like he'd get teachers laugh. No, I can't contain this kid. You know what I mean. But you know with that there's easy targets in school and and and there was a girl and I'll, I'll, you know, spare her name out of this. There was a girl who was a very easy target at our school that got bullied. A lot Staff would join in and it's just like human nature. People are fucking mean, right.
Speaker 2:And uh, he like was really relentless to this girl and when he got sober he had made a lot of amends. It was like part of, you know, part of the program and he kind of jumped some steps. He made amends to this girl. She was at his funeral and you would be if you were at that funeral and you heard the way she was speaking to him. It was in the highest regard possible because he, before he died, he had reached out to her, made a serious amends and an apology. She had nothing but positive things to say about him.
Speaker 2:This motherfucker had single-handedly like cleared the table, made amends and got like, got right with people maybe God or whatever he got things right and he left some good before he died and I'm like that's a really beautiful thing and I remember like crying and thinking like I can't believe what I'm hearing right now, cause he was really relentless to that chick and there was some beauty in that. So I learned that the dude had a big heart and uh, we will, uh we'll miss Steve, but that's uh, that's, you know, something to deal with right through your, your 19 years old, through college, and there was a lot of experiences like that. There's a lot of funerals I've been to and with people that partied fucking hard with man and I I came out, I didn't die.
Speaker 1:Could have been some close runs, but you know we were just talking about that yesterday, about how we came out of this, and I was talking like I had written it down in in my book parables, and I'm like it's. I don't want to call it a miracle, but we're really lucky to be where we're at right now, to even be able to talk this way, to articulate, to be healthy, to do these things, because, with what we did in our lives, there's no telling that we should be here. No, dude, there's not.
Speaker 2:Right, there's no guarantees.
Speaker 1:It's not guaranteed, so you got to be grateful yeah, for the people that came before us who aren't here anymore, for sure man and, uh, you take a couple of them.
Speaker 2:Why me? Why me? I can't get out of bed. I'm so sad. This is the fucking worst. How come everyone I love dies, like that's one approach.
Speaker 2:Or you say like, well, this person was really beautiful. I learned a lot from them and this experience has taught me this, and seeing how they died, um, I treasure my life a little bit more. Here's the certain things that I can take to protect my life and also be kind to others, because, also, when I die, um, it'd be nice knowing that people like benefited from me being around and then I at least treated them well and they, they can you know that they were like happy that I was, I was there for them and uh, I mean that supersedes your, your existence, right? That's. That's greater than yourself, like the impact that you can leave on on the people that you surround yourself with. So it's incredibly powerful stuff, man.
Speaker 2:So it's uh, it's weird. It's weird to think that we're in our thirties, like I sit here now and I'm like fucking, part of me still feels like that 16 year old boy fucking selling DMT and smoking it in a fucking parking lot, and I'm like damn dude, like is this just one giant trip? It gets really trippy, man, and you hear, uh, you know, like Gary Vee love Gary Vee. And he's always like, oh, you got time, you got time. I'm like fuck man, I'm not like you. You had that. If you have that mindset and you don't act with urgency, you will wake up and you will be 70 and you'll be like what the fuck? You know, or maybe you won't.
Speaker 1:I think, to look at it with the perspective like you got time, I think so the one catchphrase I've been using the last six months and uh, edgar likes it at least I didn't like it because I'd say it um as a joke. But okay, just gotta ease up. Sometimes we are too hard on ourselves, I. Sometimes we do think things would have been different. Sometimes we wish we didn't make decisions.
Speaker 2:Right, I could see how you telling your girlfriend to ease up maybe be like fuck you that would drive me fucking nuts fuck you.
Speaker 2:I said that to my buddy, sam, and he goes wow, she hasn't hit you yet, yeah for sure, dude, that would be like I'd be like okay, no, dude, treat yourself kindly, treat other people kindly, but also don't make excuses not to do shit now because you think that you're just going to have, you're going to get around to it. Well, here's my way of looking at it. You're going to get around to it.
Speaker 1:Here's my way of looking at it. Imagine if you did when you were 16, what if you didn't have any of the experiences that you had, because you didn't view it as like I got time. You're like I'm just going to start working really hard at the age of 16. I'm not going to have all of those experiences that made me who I am, because you wanted to. Maybe you didn't end up doing any drugs. Maybe you didn't meet all of those people. Maybe you were a good student, you were a good business owner and you did all of that shit. Yeah, and then in your 30s or 40s, like, okay, now I'm going to ease up.
Speaker 2:I know what you're saying and it's interesting because I believe that everything, everyone has their own journey and that wasn't my journey, right, right. But also I also believe that the same person that's 16, that isn't me might not have to go do all the drugs and go. You know what I'm saying. I wouldn't tell them to go do what I did because it's not their journey. And it's an interesting point too, because there are different experiences in our life that craft us in different ages, and I believe that there is a responsibility when one becomes self-aware, which it took me. It just took me at this time, which is great. I'm blessed for it. Now that I understand those experiences and I learn from it and you started to self-develop, that now you kind of have the responsibility to go do something about it and a lot of times you're probably not. So your brain when is your brain fully developed? They say 25 or some shit.
Speaker 2:I'm not a scientist, so I don't know, so, like you know, like dude, like it's, it's different, but I also believe that you can have a fulfilling life without the side quests that I was involved with and I and I wouldn't encourage that, but I would encourage, I guess, anyone who is 25 through 30 that has had an experience and we've all had different experiences pain and suffering is to assign an element of purpose to that, grow from it and and that's that's all we can do, Right, but also, you know, yeah, you can ease, you should always have. We talked about solitude, right, and a part of this process of like act with urgency. It almost seems like it might be contradictory, but go, take time for yourself, Like, enjoy the solitude. If you're right, you're going to burn out. It's not go, go, go. But act with urgency means like plan your solitude, like take control of your calendar and you do what you need to do to fulfill that purpose right.
Speaker 1:Have some urgency with taking care of your health.
Speaker 2:That's it, dude. That's what I'm talking about, I think everything falls into place after that.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:That's what the urgency is and your health is comprised of, like I put it in a few different compartments here and you have financial health, you've got physical health, you've got mental health, spiritual health, emotional health, social health, which all fall under health. They're all different aspects of it and when you win on one of them, or a couple of them, you'll notice that some of the other ones improve as well. It's natural, now, unless your social health is improving, but you hang out with a bunch of fucking heroin addicts all day, then yeah, you're going to have some social, but you're pretty at risk. You hang out at the barbershop long enough. You're going to get a haircut, right? They say that in the program.
Speaker 2:So, be very mindful of your surroundings and your environments, and that comes with I'm going to say it, this one's a shout out to Aaron K Taylor power of the pause. And, yes, act with a sense of urgency, and sometimes that requires you to be like we got to pause here, and that's that is really taking, that's taking control. That's another element of it. So, with the urgency, it's the urgency to pause. You know it's like it's, it's, it's. It goes both ways, man.
Speaker 1:It's hard to pause in today's day and age, though. It's hard to pause in this fast paced world. It's hard to pause until you put your phone down and you shut your TV off.
Speaker 2:But it's very easy to turn your TV off and put your phone down. It is Physically. This is a very easy task. Now we don't have to make it as difficult for ourselves all the time. It might feel that way. I'm not going to let people off that easy.
Speaker 1:Turn your fucking phone off, turn the TV off and make your fucking bed for the love of god, I'm actually going to sneak in to your apartment after you go to work and un-make your bed.
Speaker 2:So, dude, if you do, take a picture of it and tag me in, it does.
Speaker 1:Muncie, or does anyone have like a spare key to your place?
Speaker 2:I'm not telling you who does go fuck yourself. There's two people that have spare keys to my place, I think I figured it out and they shall remain nameless, nameless, shameless, shameless, baneless.
Speaker 1:They have no shame they have no shame, I'm gonna find them. Uh, you, I have a certain set of skills brandon's key.
Speaker 2:Anyone touches my cat I'll fucking kill you.
Speaker 1:I'll just cuddle him. He's the best dude.
Speaker 2:And then fuck the bed up. He's the best you know. I love how we started this podcast with the intention of this being a goofy like off the, and it got like really deep, like we already talked about. It wasn't goofy.
Speaker 1:It was pretty serious. We got very serious Right.
Speaker 2:We're goofy, but we we're not afraid to go into it. No, we're not.
Speaker 1:I was actually going to say we might as well just keep the ball rolling at this point. Yeah, let's keep it rolling dude, Because my thing was here on the Feel Free Podcast. Like you had said, once you get this awareness for the things you did, people that come after me don't have to do what I did.
Speaker 1:You don't have to take all of the drugs and make the mistakes and go through the pain, because we're literally here telling you that you're gonna end up with a hole in your heart, a hole in your soul and a hole in your body, and pain's gonna find you it'll just be a little bit different.
Speaker 2:Right, it's always gonna come. Josh says this. Josh harrison says the bad news is always gonna come knocking on my. I don't need to go looking for it. He's like if it's bad enough, it's going to fucking show itself. And it will. It absolutely will.
Speaker 1:For sure. So by telling people I've never condoned the use of, I've never told people to go out and use drugs.
Speaker 2:I have. When I was doing drugs, right right, right, 100% Right.
Speaker 1:Not now, though, no not now, with the platform and the things we're doing on social media and what we're trying to help people heal and live better lives. Like never condone or tell people you got to go out and do this in order to learn this. If you're gonna do some shit like that, yeah, just be safe that's all I can say. Yeah, you know man what we're what we talk about right now. Like you had a really heartfelt story about your friend that passed away. Sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2:I remember you well, it's a little too late, john. I mean he, he died a long time ago. It'd been nice to hear that 10 years ago. I don't know, I think I've been waiting. I've been waiting for this moment for 10 years you haven't have you said it.
Speaker 1:no, I don't think so, I'm just fucking with you. We actually met that your freshman year at college.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I met you after Steve died, right? Yeah, probably because he died in the beginning of that semester.
Speaker 1:Were you sober when you came to Grand Valley?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think I was. I think I was, and I believe I started like right when I got on campus. Yeah, dude, I was sober like the first two days, and then I met a gentleman who engaged in the marijuana arts and I was like I too happen to be a marijuana connoisseur, and then we just smoked all year Dude.
Speaker 1:Weed was big in Michigan, dude weed fucking.
Speaker 2:It was huge because it was right around medical right. Wasn't this right around the medical marijuana time, dude?
Speaker 1:it was crazy coming from Chicago because oh yeah, Dude, it was so expensive and not as good you guys were paying 20, 25 a gram all the time in Chicago and we were getting fucking An eighth for 40.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you were like what the fuck is this shit?
Speaker 1:What is going on?
Speaker 2:my one buddy was my one buddy was yelling at me because we would.
Speaker 1:We would buy grams here and roll up a blunt. Okay, right yeah, when I would buy when I would have a gram and roll up a blunt. One of my buddies would be like what are you fucking doing? Yeah, and I'm like I'm rolling a blunt. He goes with a gram and he's like mad at me. I'm like I don't know, you chicago motherfuckers don't know how to smoke weed because you got to put least two in there.
Speaker 2:We smoked a lot of blunts too. I think it's because it's a Detroit, it's a city thing. So everyone smoked blunts.
Speaker 1:White grape, white owls.
Speaker 2:And then it was funny because we'd smoke with the black kids and they'd never seen a bong and they'd be like Y'all, man, pass that blunt. And we're like it's a blunt, Like pass the glass blunt. And they're like what are these white people smoking? We were teaching them how to smoke out of that shit. And then you know it was a really fun meld of the cultures Like marijuana, Like, okay, we both understand, we like this plant. Now let's sit together and enjoy company and engage in it.
Speaker 1:Marijuana and music. Yeah, a lot of good memories with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, man, it was. I mean, it opened up the door, I'll say with the marijuana. I met a lot of people freshman year of college that I don't remember and I met a lot of people. And there was also the extroversion and the fact that I just fucking do so much even more so than today with being social, like living in the dorms too, because I was in the dorms freshman year and it was just in and out of everyone's room all the time. We studied together, we did homework together, we ate together, we smoked weed together. We basically did everything except for well, I was going to say sleep together, but there was a lot of that going on too.
Speaker 2:Do you remember when we met the first time? I'll tell you, I remember one of the first times I met you, okay, and me, potentially Blake Lilo and a few other people were freshmen and we were walking around trying to find a fucking party and we walked over to Q Block in fucking Copper Beach and I saw you on the deck smoking a cigarette, having a drink, and maybe I already knew you because I was like yelling up at you and I think Jared knew you. That was yeah and Jared, jared knew you and we were trying to get in the party. I think you kind of told us to fuck off, like you weren't like letting us in the party, and I'm like this guy's so cool and, uh, I think it was because I didn't know the we.
Speaker 1:It was like q102 or some right we.
Speaker 2:Well, we were doing we let us up at the party. Man, we're the fresh people I don't even know I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Well, the problem was evan was evan did not like me having people. Yeah, come in that. He didn't know that was his thing.
Speaker 2:I liked meeting Evan Because right when I met that guy, him and I just fucking we, like you would have thought we were going to fight each other, but I knew that he was sizing me up. And I was sizing him up because I picked up on the New York shit and people were like, dude, you can't talk to the guy. I'm like no, no, he's like gonna like me now. Like this is how we're. And we got like we really bonded.
Speaker 1:You roasted each other, because we just roast each other like dude you're like what are you?
Speaker 2:you know, these guys like people didn't understand that and uh I like that about evan he's.
Speaker 1:He's a good dude, he's smart motherfucker too I'm actually going to visit him in a oh, that's cool dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I say what up, evan, how you doing? Man, maybe you'll watch this, maybe not. If not, fuck you, dude, I don't really care. Fuck you, you're an asshole. Anyways, dude, I told you that when I first met you. I'm the son of that club. Yeah, no, you see, I read them a few times at grand valley. But yeah, I met you. I thought I met you that night. What was your first?
Speaker 1:memory. I remember jared, bringing you over once to your place. It was either our place or was a place in country place. Okay, because some people lived in country place. Or it was a place in Country Place. Okay, because some people lived in Country Place Because there was Copper Beach.
Speaker 2:Country Place and Meadows.
Speaker 1:Okay, right, I don't know if the first time we met was at Q.
Speaker 2:Block. Okay, it was one of the times I don't fully recall. I do have a bunch of shit too.
Speaker 1:The first real time I spent time with you like for an extended amount of time was it was like three in the morning. It was, after all, the parties had ended on the weekend and my ex and I were smoking a cigarette outside and we're standing down there. It's literally like it's three in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they had those balconies on cuba or just on copper beach, they had the balconies and there was a patch of grass. I was sitting. I remember that, and you and her came home from a party.
Speaker 1:You're like chops I like looked over and I'm like some dude's sitting in the fucking grass over there and you're just like sitting there like, oh, my friends left me, they're all like sad or something. So we, like we'd like, took you inside, we gave you like a blanket and some water and then, like we threw light.
Speaker 2:Shows for you you did that for me twice, you and megan like I like it'd be weird, like I'd be tripping. I'd either be tripping balls and alone or like really drunk and alone like I was, somehow like I'm still trying to keep the party going. And then I would find you and you would have like rave gloves or something and like it would lift me up, like I'd feel better. I'd be like john saved me, the magic chicago. John saved me, him and his hippie girlfriend saved me.
Speaker 1:And then I.
Speaker 2:I go back like I ran into John last night and it's, it's just so wild Like a lot of that's, like a fucking blur to me, man.
Speaker 1:But the first. Yeah, I mean that that year, the first two years. We got closer when I came back.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we got closer downtown, grand Rapids Business college, business college. That's like when, like because you lived like I was moving in with my parents and you're like yo, chops. And I was like, oh shit, my parents. I was like I was like keep it chill, dude. These guys don't know I'm about to sell a bunch of drugs this year. Let's just like. You know, looking around, they're like these like chops. You like you know that guy. I'm like, yeah, that's chicago john. He's like chicago john. I'm like, oh, this is gonna be fucking crazy I.
Speaker 1:I was like holy shit, this year's gonna be I'm like I'm definitely going back to rehab we had like we had weird. It was like a roller coaster that year. We'd have moments we're like, yeah, dude, I'm doing all my homework, I'm sober and we're not partying. And then, like other times, just like, dude, I am off the rails right now and then we would go back up ah, dude, I figured it out, I'm gonna be sober.
Speaker 2:I can do adderall on this day, and I can do this on my classes. Yeah, it was um fuck man. I think I was part-time, I think I had, like, I missed registration for some reason. I was only taking a couple classes but yeah, we would like get the adderall. You and I would do a bunch of adderall and we go to our homework. I'm, like you, ready for another cigarette and then we go out. Oh yeah, I'm gonna write the fuck out of this paper dude, Dude.
Speaker 1:And it's crazy because that almost reinforced my using that year. Oh yeah, dude, you want to know why? Because I ended up on the dean's list that year. Yeah, right. So I'm like, oh, I can do drugs and be a good student, yeah. And then, lo and behold, it spiraled into just it always does, it always does, you can keep it up until you can't.
Speaker 2:I had a 4.0 um until I went to to rehab and my parents pulled me out of school. Like I was almost at the end of the semester, I went through fentanyl withdrawals, this this was like I can't fucking piece years together.
Speaker 2:One of the years fentanyl withdrawals during finals week somewhere around there 2017 2017 yeah because that was like I think papers, fentanyl, withdrawals Missed one of my finals. Like I like, literally I just ran out of shit Bunch of group projects that I was running All A's in all my classes. But I'm like, fucking the finals up, I can't study, I can't and they just pulled me out and then I was so bummed I'm a fucking drug addict going to rehab and they're like what the fuck are you talking about? They're like, dude, like you're doing great in the classes but like that is going to come crashing down.
Speaker 2:I was all propped up on different drugs all the time and my brain didn't have any fucking dude. There was no sobriety for months. It's like three, four months of continued cocaine, opiate, adderall, marijuana, kratom I'm sure Kratom. When I didn't have like I had my cocktail of shit. I wake up, I would take Xanax and then do opiates and take Adderall and then do coke in the bathroom at school. Like it was like that shit should kill somebody. You know what I mean. And it was just normal and I was like like what are we doing? Tonight? I had my box full of whatever those are baseline. It was my baseline.
Speaker 2:I knew like okay, a couple, little bit of fentanyl, a little bit of xanax and adderall, like okay, some coffee. It's like, oh, I'm gonna be really edgy and have some coffee today, living living it on the edge, get a little bit of extra zest there. But it came crashing down. It did, it did, it came and it always does. Man, it goes full circle. They pull you out of school and I'm like, holy shit, I fucking am sad, I'm not happy. Why'd you take my happy chemicals away? And that was rough and still didn't figure it out. Went to rehab, came back, I did some summer classes and got A's.
Speaker 1:I think I ended up living with Bryce at what was that place called it was on Lake Michigan Drive, the newer one, yeah.
Speaker 2:Enclave, Enclave, dude. You fucking man. You're such an Allendale motherfucker, Isn't that whack? Sometimes I pull some shit out of my head, but get this If.
Speaker 1:I say something. I won't remember what I did yesterday morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like what did I do? I know it's weird, especially with drugs. And then four years I was here five years ago. I was here five years ago reciting the alphabet backwards for a police officer. This is weird. It's weird how memory works. So then Enclave I think it was like I fucking feel like I got to rehab again. Whatever the fuck. I was sober, moved to Enclave. Then I relapsed. My dad didn't talk to me for a while, relapsed hard I think. I got into Kratom's and I still was selling drugs. People were going to jail. I got paranoid. I kept flushing my drugs down the toilet, thinking I was going to get raided. That was when I fucking tweaked. Really bad, I mean, we were doing a lot. You were calling me freaking out, dude. I was so like even now, like my heart just goes up thinking about how much anxiety that I had in that period of my life.
Speaker 2:And you know, dude, it was understandable given the things that were going on and especially the amount of cocaine that I was ingesting on a regular basis and the sketchy people I was associated with Like it was high profile stuff and uh. So then that happened, I and then I don't. I'll see man like, try it out with the timeline. I think I finished school, I graduated, I got cool with my dad, uh, I moved to wyoming michigan at one point and I did the cigarette coupon thing, oh man. But basically then I guess I got sick of it a year and a half ago and I was like, okay, fuck this, I was going to say it was weird because we were talking about applying purpose to this pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at the start of this, and even the middle of this, we were looking back on it like these experiences made me yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:And then we dabble in a this was really fun. And then we go, then it ended really fucking bad. You get, you get hit so many fucking times and you need to get hit as many times as it fucking takes, because the fact of the matter is that I've been struggling with drugs and alcohol since I was fucking 15 and I didn't get sober until I was 28. I think, just like before I turned 29. Because I spent my entire 29th year sober.
Speaker 1:Because you got sober in.
Speaker 2:December of 2022. Correct December 2022. It was like December 10th or December 11th or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you had just turned 29 in January I would be, yeah, exactly so, just turned 29 in January.
Speaker 2:I would be, yeah, exactly Right. So like the end of 28. And it took a lot of pain and suffering in different forms and, like you're ready when you are man, you really feel it and you're like, and you have to believe, because I just never believed that I could have a a fun and fulfilling life without the drugs and alcohol. And and that's when the beauty started happening, because I was like I started noticing that I was having good times also where I wasn't drinking and doing things that I enjoyed, like my purpose and my mission. And I was like, well, like like my purpose and my mission. And I was sort of like well, like when I do this with my band or we have like a really good session, or I have a deep, meaningful conversation, or I help someone with a problem or I sell something, like I was getting the same feeling, like it's not the same different feeling, but a more fulfilling one, because it was rooted in purpose, without the drugs and alcohol, which signaled in my brain like oh can, actually, you can do this without being fucking drunk and it's, it got the ball rolling.
Speaker 2:So it was on my, especially with the alcohol before I got off the opiates Cause I knew the, I knew the opiates had an expiration date Like you can't like in your head as someone who's like abusing, like opiates and shit, you know like this isn't a socially acceptable thing. This is something that like is a no, no it's. It's taboo for a reason. The alcohol is a little different.
Speaker 1:I was going to say. You said socially acceptable, like the opiates. I wouldn't even say go further Like this isn't humanly, it's not humanly acceptable. This isn't good for me.
Speaker 2:No, it's pretty objectively bad, like most people. Would you know what I mean. So with the alcohol it's a little different. Like oh well, he has a few. Like alcohol is so fucking normalized. So for me I was like I don't want to take that away. It's such a social part, it was a part of everything we fucking do. It's the only thing you had left, it's all I had left.
Speaker 2:But then I started seeing the pieces of me enjoying my time without alcohol and I started seeing also the other end. This is making me a lot sicker. My heart hurts. I'm getting acid reflux really bad. The hangovers are way worse. I don't get anything Like I just noticed like, dude, the fucking cons are way outweighing the pros right now, so that that was festering all during this.
Speaker 2:And then I had that huge, like you know, heroin tirade for two weeks and then by that time like I'm good, I'm like I'm fucking good. Now I know what I have to do because I've been through here. I know who I have to find, I know who I have to talk to. I've already got good morning routines. I just need to find someone who's going to help me with the sobriety piece and the self-development and I need to get. I need to get in shit, like I knew, and I just had to find someone that was really that I was going to connect with and that was going to fucking hold me accountable and say listen, motherfucker, I was there, here's what we do. You're going to fucking win. Right now. You fucking hate yourself. Mo had to say you don't fucking respect yourself and that shit hurt. And then I assigned purpose to it and now I'm with John.
Speaker 1:Now you're here on feel free. Feel free not respecting yourself. It's a big one. I think a lot of people struggle with that too.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude, it's a tough pill to swallow, it is. You don't fucking respect yourself. And I was like, well, I kind of do, I'm like does that sound? And I'm like, holy shit, that doesn't sound like somebody who's very confident.
Speaker 1:No, not at all no dude, I fucking hated myself and that was a big part of why I was using drugs and alcohol in the first place, the same with me, you know, I wanted to like we all we reached that point at different parts in our life absolutely dude, and for me, I all, we, we both had enigmas, enigma we had.
Speaker 2:Mine is an enigma, john. My mind is you caught that, don't you have to be stupid.
Speaker 1:Somewhere else, not until four, I was gonna say that you had chops and I had chicago, john yeah, I wanted to just fit in, and then even in the the later stages of my addiction it wasn't about fitting in, because I was using more profusely by myself, correct In isolation, correct Right.
Speaker 1:So when I wanted to get sober, it was tough for me to let go of the booze too, because it was socially acceptable. And the weed and the cocaine at the end of it. And then I started to realize that I told myself I don't care if anybody on this planet doesn't love me. I have to love me. Yes, that's it. I don't care If I give up drinking and weed, if I give up these things and I end up losing friends and family or people don't want to spend time around me because I'm sober.
Speaker 1:As long as I love myself and the time I spend with myself, then that's all I could ask for, and by doing that, it now affected all of my relationships in a positive manner, For sure dude, for sure you have to let go before you can gain, and that was like the something that I read.
Speaker 2:Well, I actually saw that. I saw that from an influencer that we talked a little bit about earlier. I'll give a shout out. Yeah, wes Watson, it's about losing, like you have to like let go of shit, and that's like vices and things that you can't control.
Speaker 1:Expectations.
Speaker 2:Expectations is a huge one man. Expectations are things you can't control and there's a lot of freedom and it strengthens. The beautiful thing, too, is it strengthens those relationships that are really important, like they blossom into something you can't imagine. The relationship that I have now with my parents and even being I always thought I was like a good brother and a good friend and I'm like and there was a lot of I was fortunate enough to have people that were really patient with me and you know, also still like have friends that were in recovery, like you and Muncie, that we kept in touch with.
Speaker 2:But even our friendships have grown stronger as a result of the sobriety which is to be expected, right, true friendship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely man, something that's not rooted in drugs and alcohol. Luckily we had that Me, you and Muncie had that Even though we all had points different points in our lives where we used drugs together. That was like cool. We bonded over that. But it went deeper than that and that wasn't the case with everybody that I did drugs with. Some people were like this dude is a fucking fun time, bro, and I'm trying to see that motherfucker tonight like it's fun, it's all pleasure seeking, but it's like you have those deep, deep, intimate bonds with people and that's really special and that will always supersede any of the other stuff, right?
Speaker 1:it's just prioritizing that instead of seeking pleasure or seeking acceptance socially. It's you just got to respect and love yourself first.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's it and truly and truly feel that. And the only way you get there is by is by stacking those wins, doing what you say you're going to do, like making commitments to yourself, and following through, because if you don't, then that's showing already that you don't respect yourself. You know what I mean. You have you have to prove it by actions, working on your health alignment all, all ass, all facets man all fucking facets. It's fucking amazing. So this is fucking great this is a great.
Speaker 1:I'm stoked to be here. You said that like 10 times. It's fucking true.
Speaker 2:I'm fucking, it might seem silly.
Speaker 1:I'm just excited to be here.
Speaker 2:I'm just stoked. It's been like my new catchphrase kaylee always makes fun of me because I went through this for a few years. I have like a different catchphrase, I guess I would say, and lately it's been I'm just stoked to be here. People ask me like how are you doing? I tell them and they smile and they laugh Like I'm just fucking stoked to be here. I'd be like Panera Bread and they'll be like what fucking stoked to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm a sip club member and then they're like stoked about that, all right, and they're like this dude's fucking probably high.
Speaker 2:I'm like I am actually the opposite and it's crazy because it's just. It's so funny how that happens because you meet people at a and they're like they're all cheery, happy, like oh god, or fucking weird bro.
Speaker 2:Like they're in a fucking cult and they're just bullshit. You know whatever. Like jesus freak, you get this. You put the stereotype on people, and, I think, unhappy people. It weirds them out to see people that are like super stoked and happy. Oh yeah, it does, and that's. It's always a reflection of self. So if I'm in traffic and I'm like man, fuck that old person. I'm like I'm like what happened today? I talked to myself. I'm like are you out of alignment? And I talked myself through. I have a mom like listen, I'm like that wasn't very nice. That lady is old and she's paid her dues to society and she maybe didn't see you there. It was not intentional. Like it's fucking stupid. It sounds stupid, but it's effective.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Talk yourself down, dude, you got to have those conversations no one else is going to have those conversations with you while you're alone in your car. If they do, it's like what are you doing in my fucking car? We got a bigger problem. Now Get the fuck out of my car.
Speaker 1:Or just drive off the highway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm killing us, paul.
Speaker 1:I'm killing all three of us. This person that broke into the car just to you.
Speaker 2:Me and my lower self are dying right now. Holy shit, this guy's fucking crazy. I shouldn't have broke into this guy's car. You picked the wrong car, motherfucker, fucking crazy that'd be fucking nuts yeah, oh, it's so fucking funny.
Speaker 1:There's a joke in everything, man there is uh, but it's 2024 and we're not allowed to do jokes anymore. I'm sorry, that's just how I feel that's not true.
Speaker 2:and after bill burr's set, fucking, dave chapelle said I watched that on Netflix. I was crying. You guys, just I love it. I love people. Don't take your foot off the gas, man, don't. No, don't do it.
Speaker 1:Keep going, keep going. Pedal to the metal. Know your audience too.
Speaker 2:You Feel Free, I don't know how to drive a stick shift.
Speaker 1:Me neither.
Speaker 2:Oh, you don't. No, oh, okay, I thought you could only like. It's like a determination of your masculinity to be able to drive a stick shift. I think I saw that on some video or something. It's like if you can't drive a stick shift, if you can't drive a stick shift.
Speaker 1:If you can't drive a stick shift, then you can't drive a stick shift.
Speaker 2:I've been in the union for 50 years I've been in the union for 50 years, america, that's so funny man. We all got our interests man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't have time. You don't allocate time. I don't allocate time. You have time, but I choose not to use it that way. I can't pencil it in. I can't pencil it in. Yeah, okay, I just can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I choose not to pencil that one in it either. My friend, there's, there's much I'd rather you know, dude, like it's just a plethora of. Like it's like books, podcasts, right, even feel free, it's like a hundred percent, like that's like going to be higher on this stuff, like when I had free time watching a Feel Free podcast, driving a stick shift, dude, like way at the bottom.
Speaker 1:Way down there, way at the bottom Way down Listen.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to say, if you have someone on your next podcast that's talking about driving a stick, shift your podcast goes way down. I know I'm not proud of it. Don't have anyone on here that tries to talk about. I will fucking cancel you.
Speaker 1:I think I'm going to bring in a stick shift enthusiast.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine a more boring fucking podcast? Why are you getting all this hate? The stick shift enthusiast Instagram page is going to be talking shit. Someone, please create a stick shift enthusiast Instagram page and just fucking troll John in the comments. Just fucking light him up with shit. Come on the podcast. We're fucking sick of you hating on stick shifts. Automatic transmissions are fucking overkill. You're a bunch of fucking morons. You don't appreciate classic cars.
Speaker 1:Fuck cars some people I see in the parking lot after the gym and they're like stopping and looking at a really nice car and like a nice area where there's an la fitness and they're just likeing out over this whip and I just walk past and they look at me while I'm walking past and then they keep looking back at the car. I'm like what do you want me to say? It's a nice.
Speaker 2:That was really rude, that he did not say how nice this car was.
Speaker 1:Did you see the rims on this?
Speaker 2:thing that one's a beauty. Where'd you get her or I mean I don't know called a non-player playable character? Npc?
Speaker 1:yeah, totally yeah, yeah, big npc vibes so we, we, we experienced that.
Speaker 2:Um, my sister and I, and we just thought this is so funny. Her and I both looked at each other. We're, we're in florida, we're walking with uh, you know, behind my mom and dad they're we're walking with. You know, behind my mom and dad they're walking, we're walking this trail. It's a bunch of old people. It's so funny, like there was a Michigan-Michigan State game that day and there's conversations with all these old people and my dad's like go blue. The guy's like go green, and like everyone just kept saying it to each other. I'm like go blue team, go green team, ha ha ha. No, that's a good one. Go blue, go green. And like they had like spartan people and like michigan people and I'm like she's like dude, total npc. I'm like, okay, it's like you're just programmed, like I like blue, I like green, ha ha, we can still have a conversation yeah, it's, uh, it's most sporting events.
Speaker 2:It's a very you know, and not, you know, not to shit on. I think it's great to support people in sports. It's very impressive what professional athletes are capable of, but yeah, it's just, it's definitely something that's. It's funny to me it's kind of funny to be like an observer of is like the haha go blue, haha go green and you apply it to political parties or anything. I'm just like yeah, holy shit man. What the fuck? So this or that type of. Thing it's a this or that this is us versus them.
Speaker 2:This is them versus us. All right team, we're a red team, we're a blue team, we're going to go team. Better than that team, go team. That's essentially what it is. What do we stand for? I don't really know, but I was born in this geographic region, so I subscribe also like competition I mean.
Speaker 1:So we used to go to like war all the time on the planet and that was like competition for societies about settlers of katan.
Speaker 1:We talked about actual chetlers of katan chetlers, chetlers, okay, chetlers of katan. Okay, I'm just saying, like we used to, war used to be like a thing, like used to be a thing, used to be a more. It used to just happen all the time warring tribes, warring villages, warring states, warring countries and shit, like it's not. War isn't. War now isn't what it used to be, right. So now humans still need that competition. So they created sports. Okay, right, that's just what I think. Okay, it's like you that, ah, we're over here and you're over there type of thing.
Speaker 2:I'm going to kill you for your resources. After this podcast, I'm taking all this camera equipment.
Speaker 1:I'm going to Viking the fuck out of this shit.
Speaker 2:The podcast ends up trying to kill each other, but we got to upload it before Fight to the death. It's like what the fuck? It's like interdimensional and another and another plant in an alternative universe, what they call parallel universe. Yeah, you and I fight to the death, and that's the podcast.
Speaker 2:I think people would watch that. People would watch some sick shit People are inherently curious about, especially regarding the more morbid sort of taboos of society. For sure, it's very. It's like psychology is so interesting All these studies they do. So, yeah, people would certainly watch people, I'm. Is that a thing? Is that death fighting a thing that you can watch? Not really anymore. It's not. It's not. There has to be some underground market for like people that kill each other and like people watching that yeah, I would imagine on some level that has existed somewhere.
Speaker 1:yeah, you just, you just watch anime or TV shows where they do it Anime is pretty violent.
Speaker 2:Some of it it is you know You're a sick. Fuck man, I'm a sick fuck. You got to do better in therapy, you got to bring up the therapy. My friend says I'm sick because I watch anime. I'm a sick bastard. You should be like listen now. It's not that you're sick, it's thing right, all it is right. Ocd, adhd, everything. I got the whole thing. It's pretty deal, it's good.
Speaker 1:well, it's like a superpower if you use it the right way, right, otherwise it's a bit of a hindrance. It can be.
Speaker 2:It can be you can't navigate, but if we look at everything that we have in the lens of like, this is a disability. This prevents me from that. You, we just gotta fucking make it work for ourselves, right? This is what mo says. Is you? You, the goal is to make your lower self your bitch and to serve your higher self. Right, you're going to have both. You're going to have the yin and the yang, for sure. How do you leverage that?
Speaker 1:I think that is a good topic that we can do on the next episode.
Speaker 2:I thought we should do five more hours on this episode Five more hours. I'm down with that this has been a thorough conversation man, I think so too, we got the ball rolling, we went there.
Speaker 1:I think that this is a good time. We're going to switch it up. All right, we're going to take a little bit of a break. Fuck yeah, man. Appreciate everybody listening to that conversation. Thanks for coming by. I'm just stoked to be here. He's stoked to be here. We are going to be back with another feel free episode. So you all know the drill Stay up, feel free, love that Cool and make your fucking bet.
Speaker 2:Make your fucking bet.
