FEEL FREE
FEEL FREE is a general wellness podcast centered around health, habits, and hobbies. Jon Cerone, a recovering addict, and his guests use stories of adversity and comedy in order to inspire others to chase their dreams and live their best lives.
FEEL FREE
Justin and Robbie: Ultra Marathon Running and Pushing Your Limits
We discuss everything from setting structured fitness goals and the importance of accountability to the contrasting approaches of high-volume and high-intensity training. Robbie and Justin share personal anecdotes from their grueling 100-mile races and offer insights into the often surprising food choices at ultramarathon aid stations.
Don't miss out on these gripping tales and valuable lessons that will inspire you to appreciate the mental and physical challenges of ultramarathons.
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All right. So we're back with another episode of feel free, the only podcast that'll tell you to chase your dreams and call you out on all your bullshit, myself included. Today, I am joined by Robbie and Justin over at the Golden Hour Adventures podcast, here to talk about running and wellness and, honestly, just having a good-ass time and living life to the fullest. So how are you guys doing today? Good, good.
Speaker 2:Good, you said, running like that's a bad thing.
Speaker 1:you're like and we're talking about running I mean, I'll be honest, my brother loves running and my buddy, brandon, loves running. He was just here this weekend. I only like running, as if I'm putting a basketball in a hoop. Can't really say I'm a big fan outside, you know, but uh, that's why I got you guys on here to talk about it instead. So I met ravi on the recovery podcast through the glass recovery we talked about, uh, you know our take on sobriety and stuff. And then when I spoke on the golden hour adventures, uh, justin was on that podcast too and follow him on instagram.
Speaker 2:Uh, running, running in stash right with all the uh, all the funny reels of you outside and shit, they're pretty funny yeah, out there freezing my ass off and, you know, running in negative 38, negative 40 degree weather, though luckily I'm glad it's over now. But yeah, so just like to hell. Yeah, have a good time with it, that's for sure of course, um.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to ask both of you why running is such an important part of your identity now, because you guys both come from different backgrounds, but it seems you've come together to love this activity so much, right.
Speaker 2:Robbie, I'll let you go. I'm long-winded go.
Speaker 3:I'm long-winded. Uh well, I've uh fought the battle of identifying as a runner on and off for quite a few years now. Right now I'm taking a little break. I haven't ran in three weeks. The van is the van has been everything I've been doing. It's been keeping me busy and our podcast, of course, course and work.
Speaker 3:I find, when I started identifying as a runner, my ego gets in the way. So I always have to take a step back and just take a break. I love to run an adventure, just to go out and be outside and find solitude and take in the views. In the past, you know, I was the guy that always had to be the top of the hill first or running as fast as I could, and I fell into a little place that I didn't like. So I kind of stepped away from running with groups and was running by myself. But then I would put that battle on myself and it still just kind of played out, you know, trying to always run fast and looking at my time and all this other stuff.
Speaker 3:Then I took a bigger break and started doing a lot more hiking and got on the bike more and then started going and doing. I was living in Colorado at the time, so I would just go climb mountains and camp and hang out. So it's been this on and off battle of identifying as a runner and you know, last year I struggled with it quite a bit and now I just like to call myself an adventurer. I haven't ran any races. I don't have any races planned. Well, I have one kind of plan, but it's more of a fun thing to go help out and do some stuff, but I just like to get out in the mountains and find peace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, being out in nature like that is is priceless, honestly I guess it's my turn I was gonna say so. Robbie's in uh, south dakota, right, and just, justin, you're in alaska, so you guys have a lot of nature out there. Um, justin, you actually were a bodybuilder, is that? Is that right? Before you got into the running thing?
Speaker 2:I was, um, I wouldn't say I was the type of bodybuilder that got on a stage and, you know, competed, um, I tried to at one point. I just never could get the last. And if you in the bodybuilding world you understand getting that last couple pounds off, um, I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. Uh, not that understand, getting that last couple pounds off, I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. Not that I wasn't disciplined, it just I ran out of time and so that was my only attempt really with competing was, you know, one year I really tried to drop the weight and try to do it. But you know, I grew up in high school lifting weights. I started lifting weights when I was young, you know, 14, 15, 16 years old. You know playing football and I'm originally from Texas, so playing football in Texas all you Texans out there will definitely understand the football is life, you know, and so small town shuts down when, when it's Friday night, and so, uh, you know, just getting bigger through through high school, um, and then, you know, joining the military and continuing on lifting weights, and it was just something that I really enjoyed and still do enjoy. Um, I just I got bored with it, you know, doing it for so many years, I got bored and I tried to find something, something that was, you know, different. Basically, uh, you know, that's kind of when the CrossFit thing was starting to spin up and, yeah, I jumped into that bandwagon for about 20 seconds and realized that this is not for me and so I was kind of off and on, you know, doing the, uh, the lifting thing and trying to get stronger. I mean, at my biggest, um, biggest weight, you know, I probably weigh like 170 now, which is, for a runner, still kind of a bigger. You, 5'8, 170 is still kind of big. But at my heaviest, uh, lifting wise, I was, uh, 230 pounds, um, I was squatting five, 550 pounds, dead lifting six something, and uh, bench pressed, I think, 335, 350, something like that. So I was a stud, I was, I was huge, um strong, I loved it, I loved every bit of it, but I couldn't bend down to tie my shoes without being out of breath. So, uh, you know that quickly uh went away, but um, so, anyway, I just tried to find something that was that was enjoyable, um, and I talked to a guy who was a semi-pro, sub sub-elite triathlete and they had this half marathon coming up and I was like, hey, man, how quick could I run this half marathon? I'm thinking I'd run it the next year because it's a month away and he's like, dude, you can totally run it right now. So I ran that half marathon and from there on out, I was hooked.
Speaker 2:Running is 100% my identity, but I like to have fun with it and I'm all about having fun. I don't give a shit about my pace, I don't care. I don't care to be the last guy up the hill, I don't care about going out and trying to for for the group that you're running with. I'm all about going to the run, whether it be with people, by myself, and just having a good time out there. And, and I think that having that mentality from the get-go has, uh, provided me the longevity of of running, and I I've probably been running very consistently since like 2017.
Speaker 2:And so, um, you know, I I've always had that mentality.
Speaker 2:I was very like, competitive and in my lifting and I wanted to get as strong as I possibly could and, you know, as big as I possibly could. But I don't know, something flipped when I was, you know, started running and it's just like I just want to do this and just have fun with it. And so, um, you know, I, I, I always say that my claim to fame is the back of the pack, even though I'm maybe a little bit faster than that. But, um, but, but it's just, that's where the, you know, it's the party pace, that's where the party pace is at, and so, um, I just do it for the enjoyment of it and getting out in nature, and you know, meeting people that also like to enjoy running, and so, um, yeah, it's never really been a serious thing for me, even though I, you know, I do serious races and I go out and do big things. I just it's, it's never really been serious for me, and I think that's, you know, part of the reason why I've not gotten bored yet.
Speaker 1:But though I mean if you're not stressing about loving something, you know if you enjoy every second of it and you're not worried about it, you know you're more likely to just do it because you love it, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure I don't love speed work. I still do it, but I don't love speed work, so that's the only thing. If I get rid of speed work but still get faster, I'd be happy. I don't think that exists, though, so you got to kind of do both.
Speaker 1:So there is some there's some torture in there, I guess. Right, so you go both like kind of specialize in different types of running. I'd say I mean, Justin, you do the ultra marathons. I know Robbie runs some races. Sometimes, Robbie, you're mostly into like just hiking and being out in nature and almost like challenging yourself, Right, and as Justin was saying, he uh more just does it because he enjoys it. You know it's not too serious, but he loves it. Um, do you guys train differently? Do you guys have different workout routines or wellness things that you do to help you out there?
Speaker 3:I mean when I, when I train for races, I take the race pretty serious and you know I have a training block. Whatever that may be, depending on the distance of the race, I dial in my nutrition. I'll eat super clean. I'll usually go very low carb while I'm training, eating a lot of calories. Then I had a coach at a time, and Justin and I are both now coaches run coaches. Having a coach was just accountability, so he planned all my workouts and my runs. He planned all my workouts and my runs. It's, you know, anywhere from 50 to 60 miles a week of running, Usually on the weekends. They were big back-to-backs, like to say, 18 miles one day, the next could be 12 to 14 miles. Then it was really whatever race.
Speaker 3:I like mountain races. So those races you need to do a lot of. We call power hiking hiking as fast as you can, um, because you can't run all the uphills. So we I would do a lot of that um, run the flats, the, and power hike up as fast as I could up the ups. Then I would really get kind of spiritual too. I'd do a lot of meditation, a lot of breath work and journaling. At the time I would journal about my runs, how I felt, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:But lately, since last year, I've been all over the place. You know, sobriety has taken over everything. So I put sobriety first and sobriety has taken over everything. So I put sobriety first and when you put sobriety first, a lot of other things just kind of go by the wayside. And for me it's been my nutrition and some other things like meditation and journaling, even though in the sobriety world you should be doing that. But I've found that really hard to do since I've been sober. I just love being sober, so that makes me happy and I'm joyous.
Speaker 3:All the time Not all the time, of course, I have some bad days, but I noticed when I was not sober and during those big training blocks, everything would affect me because of my substance abuse. Those big training blocks, everything would affect me because of my substance abuse. So I would use the meditation and the journaling kind of to negate those negative thoughts or emotions I was having because I didn't know how to deal with them. I would just use to numb the pain for everything. And now that I'm not using anything to numb the pain and I can be present all the time, I'm in my head the whole time and I've learned patience and really how to like just work shit out. So last two years all over the place. Um, I do have some plans later this year and I'll dial back my nutrition and training again, but as for now I'm just living life.
Speaker 1:It's a good way to do it, though. I mean, I'm also in recovery too, so I know exactly what you're talking about. Actually, last year I had some shit go down and has uh, I think I was calling Justin out for for the fast food and the sugar when I was on your guys' podcast, and you know, I went on a bender in 2023 with you know, with cigars and ice cream and burritos and stuff.
Speaker 1:Granted like, my sobriety always came first. But you know, I wasn't training, I wasn't worried about nutrition and the things I should have, nutrition and the things I should have. So, but as long as you know, we hold our sobriety in a in the highest standard, you know, life is uh way more worth living, I should say so. And it seems like you got a new, uh got a new hobby with the van for more adventures. So that's always a plus, too, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's taken taken up all my time this morning. I'm like, oh, I should take the dogs out for a run. I'm like looked out the window and saw that van sitting there and I'm like, nope, I'm gonna go get in that hot box and get some stuff done putting some work right yeah so, justin, you're running ultra marathons.
Speaker 1:Those are hundred miles. What are your training blocks like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, um, I also have a coach. Um, I recently just did a coaching swap. I, um, I was with the coach for about two and a half years and, um, nothing bad to say, just it was time to go. You know, it was just time for his change. And so um picked up a new one, um, excited to get kind of dive deep into this one for the for the training block for the summer.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm a very goal oriented type of person. I need to see a goal in front of me to not necessarily go do the things, but I'll get lazy and just be like, oh, I'll go for a three mile run and go for a four mile run when I know I should be doing more. So, um, I like having a coach for that accountability. Um, being a coach myself, I can coach myself, um, but I don't, I don't like to, and so, cause, if I'm programming my own stuff and I'm not going to do it right, so like, oh, that my coach is an idiot, he can. Just, you know, we can figure that out later. So I like having a coach for accountability. So I keep one long term and just, yeah, I enjoy the structure of having plans and having a goal, and so I usually always have something on the books, whether it be a you know, it's usually an ultram, ultra marathon, um, something in the a hundred K to a hundred mile range, um, and then, you know, I build myself up and run the race and then bring myself down and then probably usually right back up, because I usually have another one pretty quickly on the book.
Speaker 2:So, um, this year is kind of weird, cause I I ran my first winter ultra, which is um, it's a self-supported style run, so you carry everything you need. It's um, out in the wilderness. There's no, there's no aid for 20 plus miles. Um, you're, you, typically in an ultra marathon you can have a crew that goes with you. Usually that's my wife. She wasn't allowed on the course. Typically you can have someone who runs with you. After about 50 miles you can have someone that runs with you. You weren't able to have that on this race, so it was totally a different style of ultra.
Speaker 2:I had run three 100-milers prior to this one and this one was also a 100-miler. But I wanted to test my mind and see where my mind was, and so this was a big you know, big mind test, I guess, uh, to see where I'm mentally strong enough to be able to do this by myself, essentially so, um, and so I, I did that and now I'm flipping around and I'm not running another one, um, for quite a while. So, um, I do have one on the books, but it's it's a little bit, a little bit of ways out, so um. So I kind of got a down summer, I guess, just to kind of chill, but also, you know, get some good miles in and stuff like that. But yeah, um, I would say you know, for the most part any ultra marathoner myself and Robbie when once we have something on the books, our, our plans are pretty structured.
Speaker 2:Some people may go like higher volume, lower intensity, or higher intensity, lower volume. It just kind of depends on what works for the right person, and so I typically work better when I do a higher volume and lower intensity. That usually typically works better for me. But it's kind of all in the person with what works better. I mean, you can run a hundred mile or a 40 mile weeks, but you're going to be limping at the end.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean, we are only human. You got to take your body into consideration. Um, my brother, uh, is training for the 800 meter right now. Um, cause, he, he, he? He was training as a mile runner. He got his mile time down to like four minutes and five seconds and now he's switching up to go to the 800. Yeah, he's hauling ass right now.
Speaker 2:It's crazy I run like 30 hours and you know, and thinking about running a four minute mile just disgusts me. Me too, like you're only out there for four minutes, but it's like that's pure hell for four minutes, like not good I've.
Speaker 1:I've seen his his races and to watch I mean, it's only four times around the track too and you're just like watching him go by and you're like, holy shit, he's going so fast, what the hell. But yeah, he had a coach to help him with his training blocks as well. I personally I don't do anything too seriously, but I've had to take my training more seriously because as we get older, we get hurt more often, you know. So just necessary precautions with stretching and certain things like that when you guys are running. I wanted to ask do you guys have a favorite type of food that you eat on the trail?
Speaker 3:Well, during a race, like the aid stations, especially in the longer distances, you could say 50 to 100 miles, they're like buffets. You could say 50 to 100 miles, they're like buffets and depending on the, the race and the organization, um, there'll be hot food, cold food, like the standard food, and aid stations like potato chips, m&ms, pretzels, water, then whoever the sponsor is for their sports drink, um, there'll be a few other things, but when, when you get into the longer distances and you're going through the night, you know they'll have warm food. A lot of time there's bacon, yeah, hot soups, ramen stuff like that Pancakes.
Speaker 2:Sausage. I don't know why. When they're out there, that's the most amazing thing ever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you take a piece of bacon, then you put syrup on it, then you wrap the pancake around. It eat that. So I guess my favorite type of candy that I use on my long adventures is gummy candy. So Swedish Fish, gummy Bears those are probably my go-to's for my favorite food. And the longer stuff Really salty like bacon it's awesome Sausage. What else do I like? I don't know. I like for me I got a rock so I can pretty much eat anything. Other people have to really pay attention to what they're eating. Luckily I can eat anything, but I would just say my go-to is candy like gummy candy.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, I'm the direct opposite. I can't eat candy. I can for like a shorter run let's call it 10 miles and under. I can eat candy and stuff like that. But when I start going long, that sugar starts to play with me. I can't do it. I have to be really structured in my run nutrition, and so I eat a lot, but I have to be very careful of what I eat. I do more liquid nutrition and I've moved to that probably within the last year.
Speaker 2:Moving to liquid nutrition, it's this stuff called Cluster Dextrin. It's a mixture of sugars, but it's weird. I say sugar, you would think it'd be real sweet, but it's this stuff called cluster dextrin. It's just a. It's a, a mixture of sugars, but it's it's weird. I say sugar, you would think it'd be real sweet, but it's not. It's just kind of a. I don't know. I don't actually know what it is, but I it was just I was told to get it by somebody who I extreme, you know, I trust a lot, and so I tried it and it worked and I, once something works, I stick with it.
Speaker 2:Um, I also use gels. Um, I use um spring energy gels, which is you know some brand, but they're pretty high carb and they're they're pretty tasty and and I can live off of them when nothing else is working. And so, um, you know there's there's different tricks when your stomach starts to turn to. You know, play around and figure stuff out, but, um, I have to be real careful in what I put in, because I have been known to throw up at miles 30.
Speaker 1:yeah, I bet that sucks, though. Yeah, you just gotta keep moving once you haven't thrown enough yeah, just.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's not good I actually rolled my ankle two weeks ago in the gym while I'm hooping and, uh, I don't know, I knew it was coming too, because I had literally ate. So I ate two full bowls of ramen that, uh, my fiance made. I just slammed them and then I'm like I'm gonna go play basketball and I don't know. I'm just out on the court and I'm feeling super sluggish. I'm like, damn dude, something's fucked up right now, you know. And then, of course, like I'm like trailing back to get a ball and my energy just wasn't right and I just I rolled my ankle over somebody who was standing behind me. I'm like, yeah, I shouldn't have ate that much before going out there, you know.
Speaker 2:I love ramen. That's like a big go-to for me is ramen. I have lived off ramen for plenty of miles because that was all that was working.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's got the carbs and the sugar in it too, right? Yeah, the salts for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot of salt For me. Ramen's one of the the ones I I can't do. I can drink the broth, but for some reason I can't do ramen.
Speaker 2:I can do it didn't you, didn't you get sick?
Speaker 3:at the last one we were at together and eating ramen yeah, I was eating ramen every eight miles and yeah, it wasn't. Uh, at one point I was like I can't do any more ramen switching over to the candy stomach.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mostly I'll do gels too, and I also use that clustered extra um for me. I've always, when I've, when I run, I always started, so I just wake up and go. I don't like anything in my stomach when I start running. Then I like to figure out as I go. A lot of people don't like to do that because there's this thing called bonking. It's when you run out of sugar. Your stored sugar, depending on the person. You know it's anywhere from 90 minutes to a little over up to two hours and it really depends on the intensity. If you're not using fat for fuel, you're using sugar or you're using both, then your muscles only store so much. So a lot of people don't like to play that game. So they'll eat before. But I've always just been the type to just go out fasted and, especially if I'm in a training block, I always do my runs in the morning, so as soon as I get up I'll pound some coffee, then I'll go, then I'll just.
Speaker 3:A lot of people in the ultra world. We have like a time limit when we need to eat. People in the ultra world. We have a time limit when we need to eat, depending it's either a half hour or an hour you take a gel or you drink something, but with this Cluster Dexion we can just sip on it. Justin and I both mix two scoops in our flask. That's about 64-ish, I think it is grams of carbohydrates. So we'll just try to drink one of those an hour, then supplement if we need more or however we're feeling. So. I'm a little opposite of a lot of people. I run faster than figure it out as I go. Sometimes it it doesn't work, justin will get the famous text message I'm epic bonk going on right now. Yeah, those are the best.
Speaker 3:You know I forgot to mention one thing that we had a lady on our podcast and this is kind of it's been around for a while, but Pop-Tarts, those are like one of my go-tos. I always have a couple of Pop-Tarts in my race pack with me, but now I usually just use those for emergencies, Because they'll bring you back from a bonk within minutes and you're feeling somewhat normal again.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait wait.
Speaker 3:What's a bonk? So it's when you run out of your stored glycogen and you have no sugar left. Then it depends how bad that bonk gets. Of course your brain runs off sugar, right, your body will start saving its sugar for your brain and, depending how long it's been without sugar, you can go into what's called a neurological bonk, where your body has shut all the sugar down and is only letting your brain get sugar. That means you're like bad and you have no energy. Your stomach lots of throwing up. Usually you can barely move Cramping if you're low on on electrolytes. They usually go hand in hand and it gets to the point where have you ever seen like those triathlons or marathons where, like the guys are crawling to the finish?
Speaker 3:yeah, is that they're bonking. So those are like that's the neurological, where they just fall down and their body's just saving the last bit of sugar for their brain. You lose all control of your muscles, your bladder, your intestines.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll, usually will just come out both ends, depending how bad it is but yeah typically it's not typically that bad like you can feel it coming on and you know that it's coming and you can. You can pull yourself out of it. I mean by eating a pop tart we'll pull you out of it. It's not like you need to go to the emergency room. I mean, if it got that bad, yeah, maybe you'd need to go to the emergency room, but you can typically feel it coming on, um and prevent it.
Speaker 2:And prevent it. Yeah, and so it's very easy to prevent, it's very easy to pull yourself out of.
Speaker 3:But the main. The main symptom is we call them low points, like you'll just start feeling like complete shit, like everything in the world is bad. You don't want to take another step. You hate your life.
Speaker 2:You hate your family, yeah you just it's, it's.
Speaker 3:It's weird and that's usually if you start having a down point. You know that like, oh, I'm low on sugar, so you'll take a gel or eat a pop tart or whatever you got with you, especially on these longer distances. Um, when the aid station sometimes in 100 miles, you know they're 10 miles apart and if you're in the middle of the mountains there's no one coming to rescue you like either a helicopter or you sit there and you figure it out. So in the ultras a lot of people will carry their food, especially if you have. Like you know, justin uses a spring, so he always has enough spring with him to make sure he makes it to the next aid station. A lot of beginners don't know where to play that game, so they're figuring it out. Then they might get stuck at mile five and they got another five miles to go and they don't have any food on them or the food.
Speaker 3:We like to make jokes because gels After a while as soon as you taste, taste the gel, you'll start wanting to throw up. I don't know if you've ever had a gel.
Speaker 2:They're like consistency of glue oh god, no, that sounds terrible some of them aren't that like, the ones that I use, aren't that bad, but some of the goo brand of jail, which is by far, in my opinion, the worst.
Speaker 3:Well, hammer is still there, but see, and I like the goo brand, but there's nothing worse pulling a warm gel out of your race vest and it sounds fucking nasty. That's why I like the gummy candy, cause it always tastes good.
Speaker 1:You just got gotta chew on it yeah, that's true so you guys got any funny or scary stories on the trail or on a run I got a hilarious one.
Speaker 2:Um, my first hundred miler. Um, I had hit the 52 mile turnaround. So, turning around, probably about mile, let's call it mile 60, so it's at. It's at night, it's probably, I don't know call it midnight 2 am, something like that. I gotta shit bad. Um, I'm a mile from the aid station where there's bathrooms, but I'm not gonna be able to make it. There's bathrooms, but I'm not going to be able to make it. There's no way I have a pacer.
Speaker 2:I told you earlier pacers are someone who just jumps in with you and runs with you to kind of keep you alive through the night and through the rest of the race, cause you know, those glycogen stores get harder and harder to feel as you've been running for that much, that long of period. Right, and so you're. You're not wanting to eat as much, so it's, it's. It's kind of a nice thing to have a pacer there with you just to help you out, remind you to eat, because you become a toddler at after mile 50, you become a toddler, and so reminding you to eat, reminding you to drink, to keep running, you know that pacer just has a really valuable uh role early on in your ultra career. Anyway, I have my pacer just has a really valuable role early on in your ultra career.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I have my pacer with me and I'm like dude, I gotta tell you shit, this is, this is not going to be good, and so it's night. So I'm, I'm good, right, I find this tree. I take my pack off cause I have my toilet paper in my pack, something that all trail runners should carry on them, if they don't already. So I got my toilet paper, I took my pack off, I lay it to the side, you know, I grab my toilet paper, lay it to the side, do my business and and I, I uh, you know, take care of whatever I need to take care of put my pack back on and I'm, you know, running down the trail.
Speaker 2:I'm like damn, what does? Well, I thought that I had put my pack far enough away. I totally had not. And I literally just shit all over my pack and this is mile 60, right? So for 40 more miles and we're 40 miles in a hundred miler is a long time, especially your first one. I smelled shit for that long period of time, and we're talking 12, 18 hours of smelling your own shit, and, and there's only so much that you can clean off. Right, because, right like we cleaned it off when I got to the aid station, but at the same time it's like dude, it's still there, holy shit. So yeah, my first 100 miler, I shit on my pack. So, yeah, I'll never forget that?
Speaker 1:how long does it take to run the the last 40 miles?
Speaker 2:usually. Well, they tell you that the race, I was pretty trashed by mile 70. And so I really, I kind of like death, marched it in, which is, uh, we were talking about power hiking earlier, so that that power hiking, um, usually is about a, you know, anywhere between a 15 to 20 minute mile, just like fast hiking, right. And so, um, I had, I practiced that because there's a point in the race where your feet don't want it, your legs don't want to move anymore and you can rely back onto that power hiking. And so I power hiked for the last 30 miles. So I think it was an 11 hour timeframe that it took me to go 30 miles, but I still had I mean, mean, this was mile 60 ish that I did that. So you know, I still had to get to mile 70, so that probably took another couple hours, so probably 15 hours I would say that that took. But I mean, yeah, it was, uh, it was a disaster. It's a smelly 15 hours right there.
Speaker 2:But I've been, uh, you, you know as far as scary, I've been screamed at by mountain lions in the middle of the night, you know, knowing that they're very close. Luckily, I've always been with people, so I wasn't too worried about it. But yeah, I've been screamed at by mountain lions up here in Alaska. I haven't had a bear encounter knock on some wood but I've had plenty of moose encounters which I I think are, uh, worse than a bear. Like see a bear. Usually they probably just take off and go there do their own thing, but moose want to stand their ground and you know, I've had to turn around on a trail and go back the way I came because there's moose just standing in the trail and they were not moving and I'm not going to challenge them no, you don't fight, you don't fuck with moose man, holy shit.
Speaker 2:So you know. I've seen tons of snakes. Robbie actually only almost stepped on a snake one time when we were running together and it like four people ran by it and it didn't do anything. And then when robbie runs by it, it starts rattling. I don't know, did it strike at you too, robbie, or what?
Speaker 3:no I just almost stepped on the damn thing that thing was a monster. It was a monster.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you name it animal encounters, and then we can go into hallucinations too if you want to go down that route.
Speaker 1:I was actually interested in asking about some hallucination stories, honestly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had in that same race. I was bonking, but I was at a livable bonk, if that makes sense. I was taking enough sugar to keep me going, but not enough of where I should have had. I was looking for this aid station. It was about a six miles from one aid station to the other and I was. I was in search of it and this is in the middle of the day, right Probably noon, and I'm like there's the aid station and my pace was like, uh, I don't see anything. I'm like, dude, do you not see that nissan exterra right there? That's the aid station. And then when we got up to it, of course it was just a rock. But to this day I swear to you that there was a nissan exterra right there.
Speaker 2:Um, that's, that's my only one's kind of like that's a huge hallucination. You'll be running and you'll see a stick or a log that kind of looks like something and you'll like get scared, like damn, what was that? But uh, you know, like a rock will look like a, a, a, I don't know, a bear or something. It just kind of scares you, freaks you out. But I'm sure Robbie's Robbie's been running ultra since 2011, so I know he's got a bunch more hallucinations, but your brain does some fascinating things after 24 hours of running.
Speaker 3:We were going to climb.
Speaker 3:It was in Colorado and we were going to go climb a couple 14ers. And the 14ers they're like a half mile apart. You just have to go down through a saddle, then go back up to the next one. So it was me, this lady and our four dogs. She had two, I had my two, she had a Belgian Malinois and a German Shepherd, then I had my Australian Kettle Dog and some kind of crazy mutt high-energy dog. That was ridiculous. So we left the trailhead, we get up to the summit. It was a full moon left the trailhead, we get up to the summit. It was a full moon. That's why we were out there. This is a night too, so let me put that out there.
Speaker 3:We started about nine o'clock at night, got up to the summit, um, decided not to go. Hit the other summit. Uh, we're coming back down to the trailhead and like we're close enough to see the car. That's how close we are. Then the lady I was with like where did my dog go? I'm like I don't know. And this was her Belgian. I'm like I don't know. So we started looking for a dog and at this point I'm like I'm just going to go put my stuff down at the car, then I'll come back and help you. So I go put my stuff down at the car. Then we're wandering around looking for the dog and there was this cattle guard that we had to go over and her dogs were scared to go over cattle guard. So we thought that at this point the dog was just scared to go over the cattle guard, so who knows where it was. So about 30 minutes later she finally comes back with her dog.
Speaker 3:I'm just back at camp hanging out at the truck. I'm like oh, found your dog. She was like all freaked out about it and I had a rooftop tent on top of my Tacoma and on my Tacoma had a shell. So all the dogs were in the bed of the truck in the shell. So we're asleep. Then I get woken up by the dogs like making this weird, like crazy noise I've never heard my dogs make. Her dogs were doing the same thing. They were like barking and whining and you can imagine four dogs in the bed of a Tacoma. Dogs make. Her dogs were doing the same thing. They're like barking and whining and you could imagine four dogs in the bed of a tacoma. The tent was just like rocking back and forth and it was a little. It was pretty crazy. So I had my.
Speaker 3:I always sleep with the gun up there in the mountain. So I grabbed my gun because I was like I didn't know if it was a person, because this campground's pretty heavily populated with. It's right on the Colorado Trail so you'll get like a lot of through hikers. It's a nice grassy place to camp. So I was like what the hell is going on Then? Plus, you never know where you're going to run into a trailhead in Colorado.
Speaker 3:So I sit up, grab my gun and then I hear the screaming. I'm like what is going on? Dogs, just like they're scared, like at this point they're like doing the scared whine and a bunch of commotion. I hear the scream and it's right next to my truck and I'm like what the heck is this? Then it keeps going, it keeps going. Then finally I realize it's a mountain lion. So I'm like so I open the zipper a little bit on the thing and I start shining a light on there.
Speaker 3:I never saw the mountain lion, but it was definitely right at my truck trying to get to the dogs. Then we finally realized that her dog had smelt that mountain lion somewhere close by and was going looking for the mountain lion, because the mountain lions in Colorado they're at the trailheads up at the 14ers They'll kind of hang around. They're not as scared as people as probably in Alaska and here in South Dakota where they don't see people often Up there at the mountain lions see people every single day, if not all day long. They'll see people out on the trails, especially if they're in their area and they won't move from their area because there's so many mountain lions that you know they have their little area and they're not going to go into another mountain lion area to take over that area. So we didn't sleep for the rest of the night.
Speaker 3:pretty much can tell you that because but, I've heard mountain lions scream before, but this one right next to the truck and the dogs and everything else was just, it was crazy. I've done tons of tent camping in that area too. I can only imagine having my dogs in the tent and that mountain lion right there, but that didn't happen. Hallucinations. I've had some that mountain lion right there, but that didn't happen. Hallucinations I've had some good ones, and mine was like Justin's.
Speaker 3:I thought there was an aid station there. It was in the middle of the night and I kept seeing this light and I'm like there's the aid station, there's the aid station, we're almost there. And we kept going and the light never got closer. I finally realized it was a star, but I was just hallucinating that it was an aid station. And a lot of times in these 100-mile races, if you're at a pretty popular one or a good one where they've got a good aid station going, they're playing music, so you can hear the music from a long time, far, know, far away, and I was like I can hear music. There's the aid station.
Speaker 2:And the person was with like no, there's, there's nothing there never found the aid station then, some weird stuff out in the mountains when you're uh, when you're out there for a long period of time.
Speaker 3:Then I was pacing a guy at the same rate. Justin was talking about his hallucination and there's a section where you get down by the river and the river, if it's raging, is really loud Like you can't have a conversation in the river. It's so loud, it's a pretty big river and we were in that section and it's really rocky and it's pretty nasty terrain right there. It's the middle of the night and we're going and the guy I was pacing was like seeing all kinds of stuff, like seeing people in the trees, ninjas, you name. It was just seeing weird stuff in the trees and he was like when you're having those hallucinations, like Justin was saying, you're like, you really think they're there, Like you see it. So he kept seeing this stuff and a lot of times pacers will just laugh or at some point they're just like whatever man, you're not seeing anything and just keep going.
Speaker 3:Right, well, we, at some point they're just like whatever man, you're not seeing anything and just keep going. Right, well, we, we were coming around this bed bend and there was this guy laying on the ground taking a nap. Sometimes people during these hundreds will just take a dirt nap. They get tired and take a five, ten minute nap, maybe a minute, whatever. So he's laying down on the ground, he's off the trail and, uh, the guy was pacing, runs up to him, was like are you all right, man? You okay, do you need? Do you need help out here? And he woke the guy up and I'm like, hey, he's taking a nap. No, he's, he's, there's something wrong with him. And he's over, standing over the guy like asking him all these questions because he's been seeing people in the trees, right, so he, he actually sees someone. So he thinks there's like an emergency. And after a couple minutes the guy's like no, I'm just taking a nap. He's like, no, you need help, I'm gonna go get help. And we're in the middle of nowhere. There's like no help around, even if he didn't need help. Then finally the guy's like sat up and got kind of angry. He's like I'm taking a nap. And then I grabbed my runner, like we gotta go, like this guy's okay.
Speaker 3:Then we left and he wouldn't stop talking about how the guy needed help for I don't know a couple miles and I kept telling him like the guy was just taking a nap and it was just this, since he'd been seeing peoples in the trees, I don't know. I kept trying to ask him like what's your problem? But he was at that point being a toddler. Then I was like let's just keep going. That's funny Justin says a toddler, because we do turn into toddlers Like you forget to eat. Like you'll just be walking down the trail A lot of time you'll be sleepwalking, you're walking but you're asleep and, depending on the course, it could be pretty bad. That's why it's pretty important to have pacers on some of these. But I know Jess and I both have done probably miles of sleepwalking or then you go. I don't remember the last mile.
Speaker 1:I don't even know where I'm at.
Speaker 3:Then you wake up, then you'll go right back to sleep again, then you'll just keep on walking. It gets kind of weird if your pacer's in front of you and all you can see is their shining of their headlamp. I know for me I will just follow that headlamp, then it just puts me to sleep. So usually I like to have my pacers behind me. If I do have a pacer, that way I'm leading the way and I'm I'm trying to stay awake, but they're behind me, so if something does happen they can keep me on the course. Anything funny, I'll have to think about that one.
Speaker 1:I've had quite a few funny things, but not as good as justin's poop story I'm just gonna say that y'all are fucking nuts and I love it for those stories jesus it's great I was.
Speaker 1:actually. I took a week off of work a few weeks ago. My family has a cabin up in the upper peninsula of Michigan, in Iron Mountain, and I'm up there two weeks ago and there's a national park up there called Piers Gorge, which I usually do some hiking up there. I think there's like I think it's like a four to six mile trail and I'll go up there and I'll wear like a weighted vest, you know, just to make the hike a little more difficult and more of a workout. So I pull in there. You know there's nobody there, it's fucking dead. Like it just snowed like six inches in the middle of march.
Speaker 1:And it's like a Tuesday, right Cause I'm up here on break, so everyone's at work and there's no Rangers, there's no other people, whatever. I parked the car and I start walking. I'm like 20 minutes into the walk and then I like look down, or I'm looking around. I'm like, damn, it's beautiful up here, man, this is really nice, you know. Then I looked down and I'm like, oh, that is a full bear print right there. And then I started looking around and I'm like oh those are cub prints too.
Speaker 1:And I'm like oh shit, and I fucking turned around immediately. I get back in the car text my fiance. I'm like oh my God, I just saw a fucking bear print. She goes, did you snap a picture? And I'm like no, I got the fuck out of there.
Speaker 3:What do you mean? There was a it's like the Super Bowl of 100 mile races, it's called Western States. One year the guy that was in the lead came down and there was a mom with her cubs in a tree and I can't remember how long you waited. Do you remember Justin 10, 15 minutes? Yeah, it was a long time. He's in the lead trying to set the course record of this race and he can't go past this mom and this cub because they're right there.
Speaker 3:You know pretty much on the trail in this tree type thing and I don't remember what happened if he went around or, but it was just pretty funny because he was just after. He's like I just had to sit there and wait because I couldn't do anything. I've run into uh, moose on course, uh, in utah on the trail, and usually the you know race director be like hey, there's moose on the course. Uh, if you got to go off course to go around them, that's okay, because a lot of times if you leave the course you have to come back where you left the course to finish the course. But he was like if they're on the trail, you can go around them. If you can go around them, and there's been a couple times where we turn a corner and there's big mom moose just standing there on the on the trail and usually we'll just wander off 10, 20 feet off the course, then get back on the course after we pass.
Speaker 1:But that's my extent with those sometimes you just can't fuck with nature, man geez yeah they don't, don't play around. No, hell, no so you guys said that you guys are oh what, what were you going to say, Robbie?
Speaker 3:I was going to say I got a good story about rattlesnakes. We were we're on this trail. Then we got off the trail and we were just we call it bushwhacking when there's no trail and you're just walking on the side of the hill. This was here in South Dakota and the black hills. I mean this other guy we're trying to get back to the trail and we know we just got to go up. So we're going up and he's walking and then all of a sudden he turns around and he's flying at me. He is off the ground and he had poles in his hands and his poles are coming at me and he's screaming and I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 3:Then when he hit the ground, the hill was so steep he just kept sliding down the hill and then he finally stopped. Then he was trying to mutter snakes, but I couldn't understand what he was saying. So I help him get back up and make sure he's okay and he's like there's a bunch of rattlesnakes up there. I'm like what? So we like go up there. And it was like there's big rock. Then there was like this little flat spot on the bottom of the rock. Then I get closer and I can just hear a bunch of rattles and we get up there and it was a rattlesnake den and there was like eight rattlesnakes getting ready to den for the fall and he was less than a foot from being in that den. That's why he turned around and jumped at me Then then we we got to continue bushwhacking to get back to the trail Right. So now we're just super scared, like don't want to step on any logs or we're looking under rocks. But that was that's probably the scariest I've been was rattlesnakes.
Speaker 3:That was we're like, can we just get back to the trail when we know there may be rattlesnakes? That was uh. We're like, can we just get back to the trail when we know there may be rattlesnakes, but we'll be okay. So there was.
Speaker 1:I think there was eight big uh I actually used to have like snakes and lizards growing up and stuff, but just like you know, ball pythons and other things, I didn't have anything like fucking dangerous, like a rattlesnake, jeez, uh. So you guys have coaches to help you with your running, and I was doing some snooping and you guys also said so you guys are also coaches for other people, right? Yeah, nice, how is that experience? Well, first I want to ask Robbie how has being in recovery also helped with coaching, with running too?
Speaker 3:So I got my personal training certificate back in 2010, and I was doing personal training. I was doing in-home personal training where I traveled to the client's house. Then I was also working for a college and running the gym where students and faculty could come into the gym and get free personal training. So at that point I had right around 10 clients that I was dealing with. Then I just realized there was not Like in-home personal training. You can make a lot of money but it's really hard to get clients. It's like a special type of clientele that are willing to pay you that money to travel and all that stuff. So I kind of realized that I didn't want to work for a big box gym where they take all your money, really essentially as a personal trainer and that's kind of. When I got into ultra running, so I had some friends that were wanting to get into running you know, five Ks, 10 Ks have marathons, marathons so I started working with them Then. Um, when I was using it was, it was pretty. It was different from now.
Speaker 3:The biggest takeaway now with my clients is I'm a lot more present. I understand their needs a lot more. I pay attention to more about what they're doing and setting them up for success instead of failure. As a personal trainer, depending what their goal is. If they're looking for weight loss, there's a lot more that goes into that with nutrition and everything else. I can't control what they eat. I can only control the time I'm with them. So it was totally different different.
Speaker 3:But when you're an you know an online run coach, you set up the plan depending if you do weeks or two weeks. I always used to do two weeks. Now I like to just do one week to have better check-in. I talk with clients a lot more, asking them how they're doing, if there's any issues. Uh, when before recovery I could care less, tell you the truth, um, I would do my best, but I was always trying to fight that my own issues by numbing the pain. So, if you know, I got high. That was the last thing I wanted to do was work with a client while I was high. It was just a buzzkill type thing, unless they used to. Then it was a little different story. Then it became we were just both using. So there was that. There was that connection there. But then I knew I wasn't giving my best coaching at that time because we were just connected through our use. Yeah, now it's just a lot more present, a lot more patience, a lot more of understanding them as a human being. In the past I didn't do that. It was just like here's your program, email me next week, let me know how you did. Now it's more check-ins, more talking about goals, trying to structure goals better.
Speaker 3:A lot of people in the run world have these goals and they'll set this goal that they really can't meet because they're trying to do something that they want to get. But you have to tell them hey, this is a little outside your wheelhouse. You need to set a goal that you can actually reach and if you do reach this goal, we can work on getting you to wherever you want to go. I know in the past people tell me their goals. I just write it down. Okay, they want to do, you know, sub 24 hour, a hundred, a hundred miler, and I'm like you've never had a hundred before. Um, your goal should be first is finishing.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, just a lot, a lot more patience, presence, treating them as a human, a lot more check-ins, working. One thing I've learned in recovery is we're all human, we all have stuff going on and the mental side of running is a pretty big deal to some people. If you give them a workout and they don't hit their workout, they'll be really hard on themselves and then that will just lead to future destruction if they keep doing that. So now it's a lot more of that mental game like, hey, it's okay you didn't meet that, let's work on it from here. But talking them back into their normal selves and not let everything run away from them when they don't do what they want to do nice, yeah, that's a good answer.
Speaker 1:Um justin, how is your coaching going for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, mine's not as good as robbie's. Robbie hit on a point that I I'd like to bring up further. Um, running is a very comparison sport. So you, you see a lot of what other people are doing and you want to imitate or do what they're doing. And it's a hard, it's a I'm sure that happens in every sport but it's a.
Speaker 2:Running is a is is a solo sport, right? I mean you have people that help you out along the way, but in the end you're the one putting one foot in front of the other. Help you out along the way, but in the end you're the one putting one foot in front of the other. And so you always see people wanting to do this and do that because someone else did this and did that. And so you know, running a hundred miler is, it's a huge achievement, right? And everybody who is an up and coming ultra marathoner wants to run a hundred miler because that's what you know, so done, and you know you've ran this many, you've run that many. Anybody can do a type thing it's like. But we need to take, we need to take baby steps, because running 100 miler is a huge, it's a big achievement, but it's also a huge undertaking and in the amount of time that it takes to train for it and the amount of sacrifice that you have to give to your job well, not necessarily your job, but you have to give to your job. Well, not necessarily your job, but you have to give sacrifices to your family. And there's a lot that you have to sacrifice to be able to train and perform at the level that you need to to complete a hundred miler. And so, in saying that, like I do the same thing as Robbie, like hey, you know, you've never even run a 50 K like, let's, let's slow down a little bit, let's get you, let's, let's build you up to where you need to be.
Speaker 2:But, um, I, I believe in in communication. So I'm an online coach essentially. But you know, all my athletes have my cell phone number. I, I'm there for them 24 7. Um, you know, they text me all the time and we, we set up calls, whether it be quarterly or monthly. You know, it's like communication is huge and that's really the only way that the online coaching thing works.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm a I would say a different style of coach because, uh, I mean, if you look at my, my records. I'm not fast, I don't claim to be fast. I am what I've told you in the past the being an ultra marathoner. And you know, someone who works full time, who has a family, can help them get there, and so that that's my approach to it's, like I understand if you can't make that run this weekend because your son's playing a baseball tournament, I get it. You know things come up like don't sacrifice your life to run this race, we can get around it, we can mold around it, and so you know the communication is huge.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, I, I do it cause I love seeing people finish their um, their goals, and set their mind to something and complete it, and that's the coolest thing to me, and I've actually had the pleasure of being at a couple races where my athletes have finished, and so that's really cool to me. But yeah, that's why I do it. I care less about anything else, you know, as far as coaching, it's a lot of fun to see your athletes achieve their goals yeah, being a part of something like that is, uh, it's a crazy experience to see other people achieve their goals.
Speaker 1:It's uh, yeah, it's a. It's a beautiful moment, honestly, you know, because I think we also like put ourselves in their shoes too, because we remember when we hadn't done something, and the first time we completed something, we're like, wow, this feels great. And then you help other people do that exact same thing. You, you vicariously live through them. You're like, oh, I'm doing it again, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's fucking awesome, for sure. So I think we had a really good conversation. We've touched on a lot of points. You guys have made me laugh especially, and I know my listeners are going to laugh their ass off as well. So that's fucking awesome. Do you guys want to talk about your podcast for a little bit? Do a little ad. Tell us what to look forward to in that, for anyone who listens to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Always down to plug Golden Hour Adventures. So Robbie and I came together and just on a run one day we're talking about podcasting and I said that I'd always wanted to do a podcast, and he was like, yeah, me too. And so in my kitchen, at the table, we, we wrote down what we wanted to have as our slogan, with I'll go ahead and say it with the help of my wife Um, uh, but yeah, we, we set up our slogan. We had some people do some art for us and some songs and we started recording this guy. We've been going about a year and a half and we drop a podcast every single week.
Speaker 2:Different types of genres of adventuring. So we've had hikers, hunters um. Authors uh. Professional bronc riders um. What else am I missing, robbie? There's a bunch of different stuff, but our, our goal was to feature the everyday athlete, and so you know we have. I think we've had like maybe one or two elite runners on, but for for the most part, they've been just everyday people with a family that get out and do crazy cool things, and so, yeah, it's been a lot of fun and I can't wait to see where it goes. To be honest with you, Hell yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when Jess and I thought about this. The golden hour is the last hour of an ultra marathon.
Speaker 3:It's called the golden hour, so usually during the golden hour not to be confused with golden shower especially on the 100 mile and farther distance races, everyone comes and shows up to watch the last people come in. Those people have been out there the longest. There's a race in Colorado called Hard Rock and it's got a 48-hour cutoff. So if you could imagine being out there for 47 hours, coming back into town, town and the whole town is waiting for you to come back and finish your journey is pretty amazing. And Justin was like.
Speaker 3:Justin and I were both like, well, we just want adventure people. So we tried with the hunters, the bronc rider, other people, but both of us being ultra runners, once we started putting episodes out, we just kind of got a little traction with the runners. So our first thing was just featuring, you know, people doing cool stuff. But now we're more of a, more of a running. Doing cool stuff, but now more and more of a running. I mean we had a guy on the Beat Cancer runs with a colostomy bag and still races and the guy's a beast, 100 milers, like big races.
Speaker 2:So yeah, geez.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have a guest coming on next week that she's a adaptive athlete, so she she's in a wheelchair but nothing stops her. She skis, um, she backpacks, like she's got one of those wheelchairs with the I don't even know what they're called, but the. She can pull the levers and her wheelchair will go and she's got like big old 29 knobby tires on it and the stuff she can't go up. People will pull her wheelchair up so she can go backpack with them. So we want to hear about people's story because, like Justin was saying, everyone's got a story and everyone's different, and where it's gone is unbelievable really. Where it's gone is unbelievable really, from the time we sat down and recorded our intro in justin's kitchen as we were drinking beer and now I don't drink anymore um I think our first episode, we even did an amazing adventure we were like what kind of beer are we drinking?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that's dope.
Speaker 1:I uh, yeah, I think my episode is dropping, dropping tomorrow for you guys, so I'm excited to listen to that too. Uh, you also have one of my buddies, I think, coming on. I think you guys are gonna. He is an absolute riot, so you're going to love having him on. He? He actually just finished his first Ironman last year too, so he actually likes running, unlike me, so he'll like that, I think he's next week.
Speaker 1:I think he's next Sunday, hell, yeah, well, I, yeah, I really appreciate you guys coming on talking. It was a great episode, and I loved hearing about anything that's inspiring or anything wellness and health based, like running a hundred fucking miles. I think it's super awesome what you guys are doing, especially with the podcast too.
Speaker 3:Is there anything that you wanted to tell anybody out there my listeners about maybe pushing their limits and any advice on how to do that. I'll say the human body is an amazing tool. Put it that way If you don't think you can do it, you can With any type of movement activity. You put in the effort, the work, the consistency and you can do it. That's what I've learned through a lot of my stuff, especially ultra running. You know we always get the 100 miles. I don't even like to drive that far. I would rather run it than drive it.
Speaker 3:To tell you the truth, get to see a lot more and a lot more stuff to deal with. But what it's really taught me is that I can do anything that I put my mind out to do. I may not have the funnest time the whole time, but you learn a hell of a lot about yourself when you do accomplish that, um, that a longer distance even. You know it doesn't matter what sport is. If you don't push yourself and just stay comfortable, you're not going to grow. And sometimes you have to step out and push yourself to see the benefits of that. Yeah, you may not like it at the time when you're doing it, but you keep doing it and you'll see some growth, I think, mentally, physically and then you'll start to set up some more goals and become more driven and keep pushing harder.
Speaker 2:Dope, I think a ultramarathon, because that's what I know is 50% physical and 90% mental. So, uh, you can do the math on that one. Um, yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah, that's it's. It's a mental game. You know, making your mind strong by going out and doing crazy things. Um, keeps your mind strong when you know everyday crap comes up, it's like, whatever, we'll get through it. Go build some care.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, go go build some fucking character. I love it well, uh, with that you heard it. Folks go build some fucking character and appreciate y'all listening. You know the drill Stay up and feel free.
